Episode 14

full
Published on:

1st Feb 2024

Breaking Free From The Nine To Five with Anna Lundberg | 014

In this episode, host Jon is joined by Anna Lundberg, founder of One Step Outside who helps professionals break free from a traditional 9-5 job to find a more meaningful definition of success. They discuss the challenges of transitioning from employee to business owner, the importance of building a personal brand, the need for work-life integration versus balance, and the potential for future-proofing the business. Anna also shares her five-pillar business framework and how it helps solo and small-firm architecture practice owners navigate their business journey. She further explores alternative business models, moving past one-to-one client services. They also touch upon travel experiences and their relevance in expanding horizons and sparking curiosity.

Today's Guest...

Anna Lundberg is all about crafting careers and businesses that don't just focus on traditional success measures, but take a more balanced approach. Founder of One Step Outside®, she is on a mission to help experienced professionals break free from the 9 to 5 and pursue a more meaningful definition of success. She is the host of the Reimagining Success® podcast and the author of several books. And she's juggling all this while raising two little kiddos down in sunny Dorset.

Episode Highlights...

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

00:56 Guest Introduction: Anna Lundberg

01:42 Anna's Journey: Leaving Corporate World

02:02 Anna's South America Adventure

02:39 The Impact of Travel on Career Decisions

05:11 The Five Pillars Framework Overview

06:39 Pillar One: Defining Your Version of Success

10:05 Pillar Two: Cultivating Confidence and Resilience

14:27 Pillar Three: Developing the Right Business Model

18:32 Exploring Alternative Business Models

21:53 Exploring Creative Solutions in Business

22:22 Understanding Client Needs and Preferences

23:11 Exploring Different Business Models

24:10 Building Trust and Progression in Business

26:19 Pillar Four: The Importance of Personal Branding

30:38 Pillar Five: Work-Life Integration

34:06 Recommendations for Starting or Improving a Business

37:45 The Role of Travel and Location in Personal Fulfillment

40:58 Connecting with Anna Lundberg Online

41:57 Preview of the Next Episode and Closing Remarks

Key Takeaways...

👉 Importance of Self-Awareness - Understanding one's own strengths, preferences, personality, and life situation is crucial before starting or revamping a business.

👉 Redefining Success - Anna encourages not to limit the definition of success to monetary outcomes. Instead, she suggests it should include aspects such as freedom, flexibility, and fulfillment.

👉 Cultivating Resilience and Confidence - Building resilience and confidence is essential in managing the ups and downs that come with running a business.

👉 Diversifying Business Models - Not to be limited by traditional business models, and consider alternatives such as paid resources, teaching, mentoring, and upselling other services.

👉 The Value of Personal Branding - Creating a personal brand can help differentiate a business and establish a stronger connection with clients.

👉 Work-Life Integration, not Balance - Anna argues for the idea of work-life integration, suggesting that it's about finding a way for work and personal life to harmoniously co-exist.

👉 Importance of Progression - Offering entry-level services or products can help bring clients into your world and possibly upsell them to premium services later.

👉 Taking Small Steps towards Big Goals - Ambitious goals can be made more achievable by breaking them down into smaller, more manageable steps.

Links Mentioned In The Episode...

Anna’s Website

https://onestepoutside.com/

Anna’s Email

anna@onestepoutside.com

Anna’s Facebook Page

https://www.facebook.com/onestepoutside/

Anna’s Facebook Group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/onestepoutside/

Anna’s Twitter

@annaselundberg

Anna’s Instagram

@annaselundberg

Anna’s LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/annaselundberg/

Anna’s YouTube

https://youtube.com/annaselundberg

What To Do Next...

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https://mrjonclayton.co.uk/abc

📐Leave a positive review to support the show.

https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/architecture-business-club-5485140

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrjonclayton/

📐Find Jon on other social media platforms by searching for…

@mrjonclayton

📐Subscribe to Jon’s YouTube channel here.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGZOAac4salmSX0wWRT7JUg

📐Visit Jon’s website here.

https://mrjonclayton.co.uk/

In The Next Episode...

Next time Jon chats with James Talman about the National Federation Of Roofing Contractors and how they are supporting architectural practices.

Transcript
Jon Clayton:

When you become a sole practitioner or start your

Jon Clayton:

own architecture practice, you can end up working in the same way that

Jon Clayton:

you used to do when you worked as an employee at another practice.

Jon Clayton:

So why does this happen and how could you break free from the nine to five?

Jon Clayton:

That's exactly what we're going to talk about today.

Jon Clayton:

At architecture business club, the weekly podcast for solo

Jon Clayton:

and small firm architecture practice owners, just like you.

Jon Clayton:

We want to build a profitable future proof architecture business

Jon Clayton:

that fits around their life.

Jon Clayton:

I'm the host, John Clayton.

Jon Clayton:

If you want to get notified, when I release a new episode and get access

Jon Clayton:

to free resources and exclusive offers.

Jon Clayton:

Then go to Mr.

Jon Clayton:

John clayton.co.uk forward slash ABC.

Jon Clayton:

And sign up to my free weekly email newsletter.

Jon Clayton:

Now let's talk about breaking free from the nine to five.

Jon Clayton:

Anna Lundberg is all about crafting careers and businesses that don't just

Jon Clayton:

focus on traditional success measures, but take a more balanced approach.

Jon Clayton:

As the founder of One Step Outside, she is on a mission to help

Jon Clayton:

experienced professionals break free from the 9 5 and pursue a more

Jon Clayton:

meaningful definition of success.

Jon Clayton:

She's the host of the reimagining success podcast and the author of several books

Jon Clayton:

and she's juggling all this whilst Raising two little kiddos down in sunny

Jon Clayton:

Dorset You can take Anna's five pillars business assessment scorecard at one

Jon Clayton:

step outside com forward slash scorecard.

Jon Clayton:

Anna, welcome to architecture business club.

Anna Lundberg:

Thanks so much, John.

Anna Lundberg:

Thank you for having me.

Jon Clayton:

It's great to have you here Anna before we dig into the topic that

Jon Clayton:

we're going to talk about today You, you decided to leave the corporate world, I

Jon Clayton:

think it was around about 10 years ago during a sabbatical in South America.

Jon Clayton:

Firstly, which countries did you visit while you were there In South America.

Anna Lundberg:

Oh, I did that thing you're not supposed to do.

Anna Lundberg:

I tried to do it all in one go.

Anna Lundberg:

So I did eight countries.

Anna Lundberg:

I flew to Quito and Ecuador and sailed the Galapagos islands.

Anna Lundberg:

And then I worked my way through Peru, Chile, Argentina.

Anna Lundberg:

Tiny bit of Brazil.

Anna Lundberg:

I've left that for another time, which of course I haven't managed to complete the

Anna Lundberg:

last 10 years and then Paraguay, Uruguay, I feel like I'm missing something.

Anna Lundberg:

Bolivia, is that eight?

Anna Lundberg:

Yeah, it was the most incredible experience.

Anna Lundberg:

It was three months and yeah, one of the best decisions of my life that led

Anna Lundberg:

to another very good decision, which was to, to leave my corporate job.

Jon Clayton:

Wow.

Jon Clayton:

So, I mean, it sounds like an incredible trip.

Jon Clayton:

I'm really interested to know what, what was it that happened during that

Jon Clayton:

trip that made you leave your job?

Anna Lundberg:

I find it such an interesting question,

Anna Lundberg:

especially now a decade later.

Anna Lundberg:

It's only a few more days I can say that and then it'll be more than a decade.

Anna Lundberg:

So it's It's quite a moment of reflection for me.

Anna Lundberg:

I had always had this general sense of wanting to go to South America.

Anna Lundberg:

There's this film, Up, Disney's Pixar Up, where, um, this little scout

Anna Lundberg:

boy says, Adventure is out there!

Anna Lundberg:

And I ran around saying this, and for what it's worth, and I actually realized that,

Anna Lundberg:

um, sort of a very vague dream, I suppose.

Anna Lundberg:

I'm really pleased with that.

Anna Lundberg:

And I, I wanted to.

Anna Lundberg:

Learn Spanish and there were reasons for it.

Anna Lundberg:

And, but I guess the career reason was that I had studied one thing.

Anna Lundberg:

So I'd studied international relations and politics and economics, and then I'd ended

Anna Lundberg:

up as many people do in particular in the UK in an accidental career in marketing.

Anna Lundberg:

So as amazing as that was, and I don't regret it because it's

Anna Lundberg:

opened so many doors for me.

Anna Lundberg:

The network, the learning, the credibility, and so on, it wasn't

Anna Lundberg:

really where I wanted to be.

Anna Lundberg:

So there was always a bit of a disconnect.

Anna Lundberg:

So I would never have.

Anna Lundberg:

Being brave enough to just take the leap and leave my job from one day to the next.

Anna Lundberg:

But taking a bit of a sabbatical was already a really

Anna Lundberg:

courageous thing for me to do.

Anna Lundberg:

And then once I was out of my comfort zone, out of my bubble, away from

Anna Lundberg:

all the people who were kind of in the same lifestyle on the same career

Anna Lundberg:

path as me, I met so many people from, you know, different backgrounds.

Anna Lundberg:

Divorced, single, married, old, young, unemployed, quit their jobs on

Anna Lundberg:

a sabbatical, whatever, and it just opened my mind to so many possibilities

Anna Lundberg:

and it allowed me to immerse myself in personal development and to read

Anna Lundberg:

and to listen and, and then to take that quite scary step of quitting.

Anna Lundberg:

I knew that if I'd come back to Geneva, I was in Geneva, Switzerland

Anna Lundberg:

at the time, um, I would have just.

Anna Lundberg:

Very quickly got very comfortable back in my old job in my flat

Anna Lundberg:

with my friends and so on.

Anna Lundberg:

So yeah, it was little, little steps, I suppose, medium sized

Anna Lundberg:

steps towards that bigger ultimate leap of, um, of leaving my job.

Jon Clayton:

Wow, travel certainly is a fantastic way to broaden your horizons.

Jon Clayton:

I absolutely love travel and, and we, we might touch upon that again

Jon Clayton:

later on in the chat, actually.

Jon Clayton:

The main thing we're going to talk about though, is you have a framework that

Jon Clayton:

you've developed to help people to build.

Jon Clayton:

a life outside of the traditional nine to five.

Jon Clayton:

And I'd really like to talk about that today.

Jon Clayton:

Before we, we dig into that framework, there are five pillars to this framework.

Jon Clayton:

Could you, could you give us a quick overview of those five pillars that

Jon Clayton:

make up this framework that you have?

Anna Lundberg:

Yeah, absolutely.

Anna Lundberg:

So it's come quite organically from my own work of leaving my

Anna Lundberg:

corporate job and building my business over what is now 10 years.

Anna Lundberg:

And then also, of course, working with clients.

Anna Lundberg:

Initially I did one to one work and it felt like everything was very

Anna Lundberg:

bespoke and every person is different.

Anna Lundberg:

But.

Anna Lundberg:

You know, um, as it turns out, we all tend to go through quite similar things.

Anna Lundberg:

And broadly speaking, we kind of need the same things as well.

Anna Lundberg:

So I developed this framework.

Anna Lundberg:

So you mentioned my podcast is called re imagining success.

Anna Lundberg:

And the first pillar is getting clear on your version of success.

Anna Lundberg:

The second pillar is cultivating confidence and resilience

Anna Lundberg:

all around your mindset.

Anna Lundberg:

Pillar three is developing the right business model or choosing,

Anna Lundberg:

building the right business model.

Anna Lundberg:

And I know that will be an interesting topic, I think, for us today.

Anna Lundberg:

Pillar four is building an effective personal brand.

Anna Lundberg:

Again, a very interesting topic.

Anna Lundberg:

And pillar five, they're all interesting topics.

Anna Lundberg:

Designing flexible work life integrations and making this big, exciting vision all

Anna Lundberg:

work in a practical day to day sense.

Anna Lundberg:

In theory, seamless way with personal life.

Anna Lundberg:

Of course, that's never the truth, but uh, some effort at making it harmoniously

Anna Lundberg:

deliver on your, on your bigger vision.

Anna Lundberg:

So those are the five pillars that I've developed over,

Anna Lundberg:

I guess, the last 10 years.

Jon Clayton:

Brilliant.

Jon Clayton:

I, I love it.

Jon Clayton:

I'm, I'm really looking forward to digging in, talking a little

Jon Clayton:

bit more about each of them.

Jon Clayton:

We're going to start with that first pillar, which is the,

Jon Clayton:

the definition of success.

Jon Clayton:

When I started my business, I didn't really define what my version of success

Jon Clayton:

would be other than perhaps earning a sim, you know, a certain amount of money.

Jon Clayton:

I think initially it was just, can I at least earn what I was earning?

Jon Clayton:

In my salaried position, when I start out, that was probably the

Jon Clayton:

only kind of definition I had.

Jon Clayton:

What could I have done differently at the very beginning?

Anna Lundberg:

That's really interesting because in a way, the revenue, the income

Anna Lundberg:

is one of the most important goals, right?

Anna Lundberg:

In order to Strictly speaking, call this business a success,

Anna Lundberg:

it needs to replace your salary.

Anna Lundberg:

So I think that's a pretty good measure.

Anna Lundberg:

And some of us don't even have that measure.

Anna Lundberg:

So I think you did pretty well there.

Anna Lundberg:

The problem with only focusing on the money side is that we're probably leaving

Anna Lundberg:

our full time job for a number of reasons.

Anna Lundberg:

The number one is not usually in this case, earning more money

Anna Lundberg:

and it's certainly not getting a more regular consistent salary.

Anna Lundberg:

All of the general wisdom, I guess, suggests that it's more risky to

Anna Lundberg:

have your own business and we can question those assumptions, of course.

Anna Lundberg:

But generally, we're not leaving for financial reasons.

Anna Lundberg:

It's for me, it was things like freedom, flexibility and fulfillment, I call it.

Anna Lundberg:

So more freedom to travel, to be creative, to have autonomy, to

Anna Lundberg:

be your own boss, to work more flexible hours on your own terms.

Anna Lundberg:

When and where you want to around family and dogs and so on, and then

Anna Lundberg:

also fulfillment to do fulfilling work.

Anna Lundberg:

By definition, having your own business is, for whatever reason,

Anna Lundberg:

so much more meaningful, I think, than working for someone else.

Anna Lundberg:

So those reasons drive us.

Anna Lundberg:

And we're not, if we're not clear on those reasons, we can

Anna Lundberg:

end up just recreating our job.

Anna Lundberg:

If the only metric you're thinking about is money, first of all, you might

Anna Lundberg:

then see yourself as a failure just because you're not earning as much

Anna Lundberg:

as you want, even though actually.

Anna Lundberg:

You're having the most amazing time, you're present with your children, you

Anna Lundberg:

know, you've created this incredible business that actually is very fulfilling

Anna Lundberg:

and you're certainly on the right track, or you're focusing only on the money,

Anna Lundberg:

and yes, you're earning the money, but you know, you're unhappy, you're

Anna Lundberg:

stressed, and you've just recreated what you had before, if not made it

Anna Lundberg:

worse, because now you have to work even harder to maintain that salary.

Anna Lundberg:

So, you know, it's so important to know what you want and why you want it.

Anna Lundberg:

Before you even start worrying about the how, um, and if you don't know where

Anna Lundberg:

you're wanting to get to, how on earth are you going to have a chance to, to

Anna Lundberg:

work out the right way to get there?

Jon Clayton:

Got it.

Jon Clayton:

So if we can be, well, become a bit more self aware and have that clarity

Jon Clayton:

on, what is your definition of success and where is it that you're hoping

Jon Clayton:

to, to get to with your business, then that can help you, uh, make better

Jon Clayton:

decisions from the off, I guess.

Anna Lundberg:

Yeah, and self awareness is a great thing that you picked up on.

Anna Lundberg:

I think it all starts with self awareness.

Anna Lundberg:

Who am I?

Anna Lundberg:

What's important to me?

Anna Lundberg:

What am I good at?

Anna Lundberg:

What do I enjoy?

Anna Lundberg:

Those are things that we might not have asked ourselves since school.

Anna Lundberg:

When I was thinking about what career to follow, I did all these quizzes

Anna Lundberg:

and things, and after a while you just stop asking those questions,

Anna Lundberg:

and I think it's so valuable.

Anna Lundberg:

Even, not just at this moment of quitting and starting your own business, but

Anna Lundberg:

you know, every year at the start of the new year is a great opportunity

Anna Lundberg:

to question, okay, is it still meaningful what I'm working towards?

Anna Lundberg:

Do I want to shift my goals?

Anna Lundberg:

Has something else become more important?

Anna Lundberg:

And to reassess what that success looks like now.

Jon Clayton:

Yeah, great.

Jon Clayton:

I think that's probably a good point to move on to pillar number two, which

Jon Clayton:

is about confidence and resilience.

Jon Clayton:

Running a business, I mean, it can be hard, it can be tough running

Jon Clayton:

your own business, especially if you're a sole practitioner.

Jon Clayton:

So what can we do to cope better with the day to day challenges that,

Jon Clayton:

that we all face as business owners?

Anna Lundberg:

I think it's a really important question that again,

Anna Lundberg:

we don't really ask ourselves.

Anna Lundberg:

You said an interesting thing that you're a sole practitioner, but

Anna Lundberg:

being a sole practitioner doesn't mean you have to do it alone.

Anna Lundberg:

It doesn't mean that you have to hire a whole team of people and build a

Anna Lundberg:

big, big, You know, organization, but it also doesn't mean you

Anna Lundberg:

have to do everything yourself.

Anna Lundberg:

Uh, I mentioned a moment ago, you know, the stories are hinted at the stories.

Anna Lundberg:

We tell ourselves about a business is riskier and I can't possibly

Anna Lundberg:

charge that much or this won't work.

Anna Lundberg:

And so on.

Anna Lundberg:

And parts of the confidence I think is looking at some of those assumptions

Anna Lundberg:

and stories that we have and asking ourselves, are they really true?

Anna Lundberg:

Because we can.

Anna Lundberg:

easily limit ourselves.

Anna Lundberg:

I'm not good enough.

Anna Lundberg:

Who am I to think that this is possible?

Anna Lundberg:

And that's not very helpful.

Anna Lundberg:

The mindset that's required to run your own business is very different,

Anna Lundberg:

certainly to the mindset I needed to be an employee in this big organization.

Anna Lundberg:

And then, as you said, inevitably, unfortunately, there are going to

Anna Lundberg:

be ups and downs, which is normal.

Anna Lundberg:

But I think when we have our own practice, it's that much more.

Anna Lundberg:

Palpable and visceral somehow we feel it more because we care more because we're

Anna Lundberg:

so uniquely tied up in this business.

Anna Lundberg:

We are our business to a large extent.

Anna Lundberg:

And so that's when we need to develop that resilience.

Anna Lundberg:

So taking care of ourselves, making sure we have a support

Anna Lundberg:

structure, whether it's friends.

Anna Lundberg:

or peers or mentors who can guide us and really thinking about that and and

Anna Lundberg:

not just yeah hustling and working hard and focusing again the money as we were

Anna Lundberg:

talking about but really thinking about okay how can I take care of myself so that

Anna Lundberg:

I can take care of the business and my family and so that it can be a sustainable

Anna Lundberg:

success and not just this sort of initial hurrah I've I've hit that income but

Anna Lundberg:

then actually you'll crash and burn afterwards because you've worked so hard.

Jon Clayton:

That's a really good point.

Jon Clayton:

And something that I wanted to just pick up there was the you mentioned

Jon Clayton:

there about the value of being part of a community and having other people

Jon Clayton:

around you just because you you.

Jon Clayton:

Maybe your vision for the business might be that you are, you might mainly

Jon Clayton:

envisage that you're kind of working on your own, perhaps, and maybe you don't

Jon Clayton:

want to hire a massive in house team in your practice where you're working, but

Jon Clayton:

you still don't have to do it alone.

Jon Clayton:

And there are other ways that you can.

Jon Clayton:

Build a support network around you, whether that's being part of other

Jon Clayton:

communities, whether it's your professional organization, whether it's an

Jon Clayton:

online community, whether it's people that are on the same journey that you're on.

Jon Clayton:

And I guess with the support staff side of it, that there are non

Jon Clayton:

traditional ways to build your team.

Jon Clayton:

Outsourcing, for example it's something that you don't have to go down the

Jon Clayton:

traditional hiring route if you need some extra support within your team.

Anna Lundberg:

Yeah and outsourcing you know it can also include

Anna Lundberg:

your personal life, right?

Anna Lundberg:

We just had the cleaner come this morning and I can't tell

Anna Lundberg:

you how amazing that is, right?

Anna Lundberg:

If you can pay someone else to do something faster, better,

Anna Lundberg:

cheaper, then, you know, it's, it's definitely worth looking at.

Anna Lundberg:

And, and I always think of myself as a solo practitioner, but

Anna Lundberg:

actually I've got a podcast editor.

Anna Lundberg:

I've got an assistant, um, I have an accountant, I have a graphic designer,

Anna Lundberg:

none of these people work for me as such, but they're all part of my group, and

Anna Lundberg:

coming back to your initial point, the community is so important, you can feel

Anna Lundberg:

so alone and isolated, and My goodness, it's so, so important to go out there

Anna Lundberg:

and both have other people who can empathize and go, Oh, poor you, Anna.

Anna Lundberg:

I know it's so hard when things don't go as you want them to, but also inspire you.

Anna Lundberg:

Um, things like when I wanted to write a book, I could sit at home going,

Anna Lundberg:

Oh, I really want to write a book.

Anna Lundberg:

What if I could write a book?

Anna Lundberg:

It's such an amazing thing.

Anna Lundberg:

Or as I did, I can go and do writing courses.

Anna Lundberg:

or join writing Facebook groups or listen to writing podcasts.

Anna Lundberg:

Suddenly I'm surrounded by people who are out there doing the thing.

Anna Lundberg:

They're writing, they are authors.

Anna Lundberg:

It's not a question of, Oh, if only I could write it's, Hey, yes, I can.

Anna Lundberg:

How am I going to do it?

Anna Lundberg:

When am I going to do it?

Anna Lundberg:

And it becomes a much more real conversation.

Anna Lundberg:

So surrounding yourself with people who are already in the trenches, doing the

Anna Lundberg:

thing you want to do is so powerful.

Jon Clayton:

Great point.

Jon Clayton:

The next pillar that I'd like to dig into pillar number three,

Jon Clayton:

it's about the business model.

Jon Clayton:

This is, I think it's a really interesting point that we need to discuss.

Jon Clayton:

When most people, I think many people start their architecture based

Jon Clayton:

business, they start their own practice.

Jon Clayton:

It, it can often end up being a version of.

Jon Clayton:

The role that they had in their previous practice or, or the role that

Jon Clayton:

they did for their previous employer.

Jon Clayton:

They essentially end up creating themselves a new job.

Jon Clayton:

I think that is hindsight.

Jon Clayton:

That's kind of what I did.

Jon Clayton:

When I started my own business and I just wonder what other types of business

Jon Clayton:

models that we could consider if there are people out there that are thinking

Jon Clayton:

about leaving their employer, um, maybe starting up a new business for themselves.

Jon Clayton:

Maybe the business that they're in at the moment, let's assume that it's the

Jon Clayton:

working in an architecture practice and it's one to one client services.

Jon Clayton:

What other things could they consider in terms of business model for

Jon Clayton:

their new business in the industry?

Anna Lundberg:

It's such an important.

Anna Lundberg:

Thing to consider it.

Anna Lundberg:

And I think when we don't do it, just like the bigger version of success,

Anna Lundberg:

our definition of success, we either end up copying someone else, either,

Anna Lundberg:

as you said, your existing model, which you know you are, again, you're

Anna Lundberg:

leaving for a reason, so it might not be that you want to replicate

Anna Lundberg:

that exact thing and or you end up.

Anna Lundberg:

With an accidental business model.

Anna Lundberg:

So you don't really think it through.

Anna Lundberg:

And before you know it, you know, either you're charging too little,

Anna Lundberg:

you have too many clients, the wrong kind of clients, you're working the

Anna Lundberg:

wrong kind of hours, whatever it is.

Anna Lundberg:

So it starts again with that self awareness of asking yourself, who am I?

Anna Lundberg:

What am I, what's my life situation?

Anna Lundberg:

I talk about the push pull reasons of leaving your job.

Anna Lundberg:

So what were the things that pushed you out of this organization?

Anna Lundberg:

It might not be the employer or something.

Anna Lundberg:

It might be that you simply just wanted to change and you wanted

Anna Lundberg:

your independence and so on.

Anna Lundberg:

But if there are negative things about the way you were

Anna Lundberg:

working before, what are they?

Anna Lundberg:

And then what are the pull reasons?

Anna Lundberg:

So what are the positive things?

Anna Lundberg:

You saw a different, better way of doing things, perhaps.

Anna Lundberg:

So how could you And without prescribing, I never want to

Anna Lundberg:

prescribe a business model.

Anna Lundberg:

I find one thing that's really powerful is to look to other industries.

Anna Lundberg:

Because it may be that if you're just doing, you know, I get clients who say,

Anna Lundberg:

but all the other shiatsu practitioners or museum consultants or life coaches

Anna Lundberg:

or whatever are charging this much.

Anna Lundberg:

That's what I have to do.

Anna Lundberg:

Well, everyone else in my industry is doing reels on Instagram and

Anna Lundberg:

they're running these group programs and they're doing these calls

Anna Lundberg:

and they're charging this much.

Anna Lundberg:

And you just feel like that must be the right things.

Anna Lundberg:

I have to copy that.

Anna Lundberg:

And ultimately, again, I think it's either going to fail because it's not meaningful.

Anna Lundberg:

It doesn't fit with my personality.

Anna Lundberg:

I'm trying to be someone I'm not, it doesn't fit with my

Anna Lundberg:

lifestyle or it will succeed.

Anna Lundberg:

But it won't be how I want to live my life.

Anna Lundberg:

I'll have created a monster that isn't going to be particularly

Anna Lundberg:

fulfilling or rewarding for me.

Anna Lundberg:

So I think it's more about asking yourself the questions again, the things

Anna Lundberg:

you didn't like about where you've come from and the things that you'd like to

Anna Lundberg:

add more of, have less of, and then look to other industries for inspiration,

Anna Lundberg:

you know, there, there are, you know, even think of like a, a neurosurgeon,

Anna Lundberg:

a brain surgeon, how do they run their practice or, um, you know, in psychiatry,

Anna Lundberg:

some kind of medical field, there are different ways and just thinking of.

Anna Lundberg:

Parallels thinking of things that they do that you could bring into your practice.

Anna Lundberg:

But above all, it also comes down to your preferences, your practical parameters

Anna Lundberg:

of the hours you want to work, the money you need to be earning, what

Anna Lundberg:

kind of commute do you want to have?

Anna Lundberg:

And you know, we were on a podcast here.

Anna Lundberg:

There are so many ways in which you can get your name out there.

Anna Lundberg:

Are you the kind of person who likes to go out and network and chat with people?

Anna Lundberg:

Do you want to be on a stage and talk about, you know,

Anna Lundberg:

futuristic design principles?

Anna Lundberg:

Do you want to speak?

Anna Lundberg:

Behind, you know, a microphone rather than being on camera.

Anna Lundberg:

Are you a writer?

Anna Lundberg:

Presumably if you're in this business, you could be quite designy and visual.

Anna Lundberg:

So is there a channel, is there a medium that would suit that?

Anna Lundberg:

So it's all about the preferences you have, the ideas you have, and how can you

Anna Lundberg:

craft something that's uniquely you and then delivering on the big vision that

Anna Lundberg:

you hopefully identified in pillar one.

Jon Clayton:

Could you give maybe even just one or two examples of a different

Jon Clayton:

type of business model as opposed to being a one to one service provider

Jon Clayton:

where you're exchanging time for money?

Jon Clayton:

You're working one to one with your clients.

Jon Clayton:

What is Just an example, I'm just talking really broad overview because there

Jon Clayton:

might be listeners out there, people, you know subscribers to the podcast

Jon Clayton:

that just may not have any concept of what the other alternatives might be.

Jon Clayton:

Remember, don't forget to subscribe to my free weekly email newsletter.

Jon Clayton:

You can do that at mrjonclayton.co.uk/abc.

Jon Clayton:

And if you are enjoying this episode then please visit podchaser.com,

Jon Clayton:

search for Architecture Business Club and leave a five star review.

Jon Clayton:

Now, back to the show.

Anna Lundberg:

Absolutely.

Anna Lundberg:

So I mean, the idea that comes to mind, which is not so far from your

Anna Lundberg:

world as a graphic designer, let's say, the obvious thing is a graphic

Anna Lundberg:

designer would work obviously in an organization and they would design

Anna Lundberg:

graphics for something or other.

Anna Lundberg:

The, the natural inclination when you leave that to, to start your own business

Anna Lundberg:

is to start creating graphics for people.

Anna Lundberg:

So it's sort of a done for you service, you might call it.

Anna Lundberg:

Create logos and brands packages and things, and you could buy those

Anna Lundberg:

obviously, well, not obviously, but unfortunately, I'm probably going

Anna Lundberg:

to undercharge for those services.

Anna Lundberg:

So I'm not going to have a lot of money and I'm going to need a lot of clients

Anna Lundberg:

and I'm very much charging by the hour and basically tie tying my time to,

Anna Lundberg:

to those projects and those clients.

Anna Lundberg:

So I need to do more and more logos in order to make that worthwhile.

Anna Lundberg:

Plus, actually, it's pretty much a commodity, right?

Anna Lundberg:

These days.

Anna Lundberg:

I'm sure AI could give you a logo, um, not to in any way

Anna Lundberg:

undermine what designers can do.

Anna Lundberg:

And I certainly worked with an incredible human designer for my logo.

Anna Lundberg:

But you know, you can download templates and all sorts, right?

Anna Lundberg:

So you have that service, which is the basic assumption.

Anna Lundberg:

You could go down to a cheaper, more.

Anna Lundberg:

Passive income, which of course is always attractive, where you would design a

Anna Lundberg:

whole set of templates that people can then sort of DIY it, they can download

Anna Lundberg:

your template and they can just kind of tweak it with their brand coloring

Anna Lundberg:

and so on, that would probably be a cheaper thing that you're selling, but

Anna Lundberg:

once you've put in the initial effort, boom, done, they can just download it.

Anna Lundberg:

You could have a, uh, what else could you, you could have a full

Anna Lundberg:

on, um, Flagship program where you don't just design the logo, but you

Anna Lundberg:

do their whole brand architecture.

Anna Lundberg:

Apologies for using that word in a different context, but you use

Anna Lundberg:

the whole strategy and vision.

Anna Lundberg:

And of course you could then add copywriting.

Anna Lundberg:

You'd have a team of people doing copy and not just the graphic design.

Anna Lundberg:

You can have web design, web developments.

Anna Lundberg:

You could go almost into full service agency to do the big shebang.

Anna Lundberg:

You could teach people.

Anna Lundberg:

To do their own graphic design, you could then teach graphic

Anna Lundberg:

designers how to run their business.

Anna Lundberg:

You could coach graphic designers how to do what you've done, which

Anna Lundberg:

then is always a great model.

Anna Lundberg:

I find that I'm both being the thing and I'm teaching how to do the thing.

Anna Lundberg:

Um, so that's just, you know, you can.

Anna Lundberg:

Sell the obvious service.

Anna Lundberg:

You can package it up in a different way as a product that people can

Anna Lundberg:

download rather than a service.

Anna Lundberg:

You can upscale, upsell and deliver a full package solution.

Anna Lundberg:

You can teach it.

Anna Lundberg:

Um, there's almost no end to what you can do.

Anna Lundberg:

And I feel like even those examples are quite limited compared to

Anna Lundberg:

what you could do if you only got a bit creative, you know?

Anna Lundberg:

So it's really thinking the other really interesting parallel is if you bring

Anna Lundberg:

two things together that perhaps don't.

Anna Lundberg:

Seem like they make sense, but that is all the more interesting

Anna Lundberg:

because you're bringing a unique blend of your particular experience.

Anna Lundberg:

With the industry and it just becomes a really new and

Anna Lundberg:

different ways of doing things.

Anna Lundberg:

So I think, yeah, don't, don't limit yourself too soon.

Anna Lundberg:

Really think about, wow, what would be an interesting way.

Anna Lundberg:

And in fact, just to, to bring it down to more practical questions,

Anna Lundberg:

again, to ask yourself, you want to ask the client you're working

Anna Lundberg:

with, how do they want something?

Anna Lundberg:

And then the other side of the question is how do you want to deliver the solution?

Anna Lundberg:

Right?

Anna Lundberg:

So there's always those two sides of the coin.

Anna Lundberg:

There's no point in me saying, Oh, I'm going to, um, yeah, do a course.

Anna Lundberg:

And then none of my clients want a course.

Anna Lundberg:

They actually want me to do the thing with them and vice versa say

Anna Lundberg:

that the client wants me to do it.

Anna Lundberg:

I don't want to do it.

Anna Lundberg:

I don't want to be designing logos the rest of my life.

Anna Lundberg:

It doesn't matter.

Anna Lundberg:

There's no point in me doing that because I'm not going to

Anna Lundberg:

have a fulfilling business.

Anna Lundberg:

So I want you to really think about the two sides of the coin, both what

Anna Lundberg:

the client Once and what's the best way to deliver that solution, but

Anna Lundberg:

also your preferences and how do you want to be running your business

Anna Lundberg:

the next many, many years to come?

Anna Lundberg:

Hopefully.

Jon Clayton:

That's brilliant.

Jon Clayton:

Thanks, Anna.

Jon Clayton:

Yeah, so there's just a recap on that.

Jon Clayton:

Asides from just delivering the one to one services that you may have

Jon Clayton:

been doing already for your other employer, you could look to create

Jon Clayton:

templates, resources, reusable bits and pieces that you maybe already have.

Jon Clayton:

From your work already that you could then resell, you could look at creating

Jon Clayton:

a flagship program, you could upsell other services, you could teach other

Jon Clayton:

people, you could mentor other people, all sorts of different options there.

Jon Clayton:

And the other thing you mentioned was about.

Jon Clayton:

Actually talking to your clients, uh, speaking to your audience

Jon Clayton:

there and finding out what it is that they need help with and how

Jon Clayton:

they'd prefer that to be delivered.

Jon Clayton:

So I guess it's finding that sweet spot, isn't it?

Jon Clayton:

Of a pain point that the customer is struggling with, something

Jon Clayton:

that aligns with your area of expertise and then figuring out

Jon Clayton:

the process of how it's delivered.

Jon Clayton:

So it's, it's delivered in a format that, you know, they're willing to exchange

Jon Clayton:

money for, they're willing to invest in.

Anna Lundberg:

Yeah, absolutely.

Anna Lundberg:

And I think one final consideration, although of course there are many,

Anna Lundberg:

would be thinking of a progression and how people can get to know you.

Anna Lundberg:

What's interesting in your industry, I think is that, you know, we worked

Anna Lundberg:

and we can talk about this with an architectural firm recently,

Anna Lundberg:

and it's kind of all or nothing.

Anna Lundberg:

We never heard of them.

Anna Lundberg:

We get to, okay, yes, and they've designed our house and

Anna Lundberg:

we've built it, which is huge.

Anna Lundberg:

It's a lot of money.

Anna Lundberg:

It's a lot of trust to put on someone.

Anna Lundberg:

And I recently worked with an interior designer and we looked at it.

Anna Lundberg:

It could be the same thing, right?

Anna Lundberg:

But ideally she'd want to design a whole new house.

Anna Lundberg:

Let's say perhaps it's a two bigger risk, especially for a new.

Anna Lundberg:

service provider, um, to expect someone who doesn't know her to

Anna Lundberg:

invest hundreds of thousands of pounds in designing a whole new house.

Anna Lundberg:

However, she could obviously have a package that's designing a room.

Anna Lundberg:

Below that she could offer sort of a ask me anything consultation

Anna Lundberg:

where it's an hour's call where people can just, you know, I want

Anna Lundberg:

to kind of design my own room.

Anna Lundberg:

But I feel like I'd like an expert to consult and just check some things.

Anna Lundberg:

She could do a mood board for me, right?

Anna Lundberg:

Where I just put in my briefing.

Anna Lundberg:

These are the kinds of things I like, and she could create a mood board.

Anna Lundberg:

So it's also thinking of how can I give people a way to experience

Anna Lundberg:

who I am and build the trust.

Anna Lundberg:

And perhaps people who don't necessarily right away have, uh, the money for

Anna Lundberg:

the big thing, or at least they don't want to invest that right away.

Anna Lundberg:

into then something bigger.

Anna Lundberg:

In fact, the same thing I did with a, um, uh, she was a music, uh, consultant,

Anna Lundberg:

I think we called it, sort of a music agency, but it was her for weddings.

Anna Lundberg:

And it was the same thing, you know, some people want the full symphony package

Anna Lundberg:

for the venue and the um, church and all the bells and whistles, but then she also

Anna Lundberg:

then started offering calls where you could, you know, I kind of want this.

Anna Lundberg:

I know I maybe want a string quartet and then she can go, no, actually

Anna Lundberg:

these are some options and so on.

Anna Lundberg:

Right.

Anna Lundberg:

And that's just a call really easy for her to offer.

Anna Lundberg:

And also a great way for other people to experience her.

Anna Lundberg:

And of course, the natural next step for them all to be, wow, I

Anna Lundberg:

loved how Rosie talked me through.

Anna Lundberg:

She clearly knows what she's doing.

Anna Lundberg:

I'd much rather she just sorted all myself.

Anna Lundberg:

So that's another consideration in terms of the progression and kind of

Anna Lundberg:

entrance into your world before you do the full, uh, beautiful palace

Anna Lundberg:

that you're going to design for them.

Jon Clayton:

that's great.

Jon Clayton:

Yeah.

Jon Clayton:

So having a sort of entry level offer to bring people into your world as a paid

Jon Clayton:

customer could then help to progress them onto maybe your higher ticket,

Jon Clayton:

higher priced services and products that you might also have since it feels

Jon Clayton:

like a good point to move on to pillar four, which is about personal brands.

Jon Clayton:

In my experience, it's not, it's not that common to see the face of the business

Jon Clayton:

behind the architecture practice.

Jon Clayton:

It's not really that common in our industry.

Jon Clayton:

So, I mean, what would be the benefit of building your personal brand in an

Jon Clayton:

industry where not many others bother?

Anna Lundberg:

Oh, well, all the better.

Anna Lundberg:

I think that's, that's a great question.

Anna Lundberg:

So, you know, some of us find it a bit uncomfortable.

Anna Lundberg:

I know.

Anna Lundberg:

People and probably myself in the past as well find that I'm a brand.

Anna Lundberg:

It feels horrible.

Anna Lundberg:

It's one thing to market, look, check out this beautiful bottle of

Anna Lundberg:

perfume over here that we've designed.

Anna Lundberg:

It's amazing.

Anna Lundberg:

It's another thing to say, Hey, check me out.

Anna Lundberg:

I'm amazing.

Anna Lundberg:

You should pay me lots of money.

Anna Lundberg:

The truth is that people buy from people, and I think, especially

Anna Lundberg:

with, with solopreneurs starting out, we want to look bigger.

Anna Lundberg:

And so we hide behind a big brand name and say, we, this, and the company,

Anna Lundberg:

and we lose the personal touch.

Anna Lundberg:

Some companies, well, it's not companies, it's people, on Instagram,

Anna Lundberg:

for example, when I'm trying to message them, I can't even find their name.

Anna Lundberg:

Hello, um, not sure what your name is, but, you know, I see that you do.

Anna Lundberg:

And that's a really odd thing, that they've, they've gone so far to try

Anna Lundberg:

to be big and professional, that they've lost the personal touch.

Anna Lundberg:

We buy from people ultimately, whether it's a big company

Anna Lundberg:

or it's a small individual.

Anna Lundberg:

And it allows you to go beyond being just a commodity, right?

Anna Lundberg:

If there's lots of coaches, lots of people who do this, lots of whatever it

Anna Lundberg:

is, if you have a unique personal story or personality or style or whatever

Anna Lundberg:

it is, that can really elevate you.

Anna Lundberg:

And by definition, you're going to be then differentiated versus your competitors.

Anna Lundberg:

What I found interesting when you said this to me when we talked a little bit

Anna Lundberg:

of ahead of the interview was I obviously checked out our architects and, and

Anna Lundberg:

I don't want to name them, although I kind of do because they've done an

Anna Lundberg:

amazing job and we love the house.

Anna Lundberg:

But when I went on, there's a generic picture.

Anna Lundberg:

Black and white of kind of the local area and I went on to the about page.

Anna Lundberg:

There's no photos there's no story and I chatted to my partner again and just

Anna Lundberg:

before this call and and he Reconfirmed that the reason why we chose to work

Anna Lundberg:

with them and the reason why I would recommend it to someone else is that was

Anna Lundberg:

A young couple and their kids actually go to the same school as us you know,

Anna Lundberg:

they They were a small startup boutique, uh, really cared about their customers

Anna Lundberg:

and they have great designs and so on.

Anna Lundberg:

But all these reasons, they're just nowhere to be seen.

Anna Lundberg:

Of course, they can't, don't need to write on their website that their kids

Anna Lundberg:

go to the school, that's not what I mean.

Anna Lundberg:

But that personal touch, completely missing from the site.

Anna Lundberg:

And as lucky as you all are, With the fact that you have such a visual

Anna Lundberg:

industry, anyone who does design and anything tangible, you can show them.

Anna Lundberg:

I find it much harder of course to show, I can't sort of show pictures of the

Anna Lundberg:

thing I do because it's so intangible.

Anna Lundberg:

So of course the design of the buildings and the blueprints

Anna Lundberg:

and the plans and whatever else.

Anna Lundberg:

That's all important, but who is it behind it?

Anna Lundberg:

I think that's really missing.

Anna Lundberg:

And if, as you say, and seems to be validated here, a lot

Anna Lundberg:

of people aren't doing that.

Anna Lundberg:

I think that could really give you the edge and help you to stand out even more

Anna Lundberg:

so by building a personal brand that attracts people to you because they know,

Anna Lundberg:

like, and trust you, as we say, as well as then, of course, liking your designs.

Anna Lundberg:

But it starts with the person, I think, and the design is almost secondary.

Jon Clayton:

So, had it not been for that, the personal connection that

Jon Clayton:

actually wasn't via their website, that you perhaps might never have

Jon Clayton:

connected with them or chosen to work with that particular practice.

Jon Clayton:

There might be other customers out there that are looking for an architectural

Jon Clayton:

practice to work with and maybe that's what they're finding on a lot of

Jon Clayton:

the sites that there is that lack of personality behind the brand and it is

Jon Clayton:

often You know, the company logo and, uh, flashy pictures of finished projects

Jon Clayton:

and not much about the people behind the practice, actually, um, I'm just going

Jon Clayton:

to name check, actually Bob gentle.

Jon Clayton:

I had a chat with Bob.

Jon Clayton:

We did a episode.

Jon Clayton:

Number six, I think it was where he talked specifically about personal branding.

Jon Clayton:

So if you're listening to this episode, you want to learn a little

Jon Clayton:

bit more about personal branding, go back and find episode number

Jon Clayton:

six and take a listen to that.

Jon Clayton:

So the last pillar of this framework It's about work life integration and

Jon Clayton:

that's Interesting, this is different, you're not using the term work life

Jon Clayton:

balance, which is often a terminology that's used when people think about,

Jon Clayton:

uh, integrating work and life.

Jon Clayton:

As a small practice owner and someone that works from home myself, my work

Jon Clayton:

life and personal life haven't always fitted together in perfect harmony.

Jon Clayton:

Do you have any thoughts on how to improve that work life integration?

Jon Clayton:

That

Anna Lundberg:

Absolutely, and it's a whole episode in itself for a whole world

Anna Lundberg:

and I'm so passionate about this and it might seem like semantics, but for me,

Anna Lundberg:

work Life balance just doesn't make sense.

Anna Lundberg:

Balance actually is, I would say one of my core values, but work is a part of life.

Anna Lundberg:

It makes no sense to me to separate them.

Anna Lundberg:

You can't just put work here and life here.

Anna Lundberg:

And also if you imagine the sort of scales that you usually picture

Anna Lundberg:

when you say that balance, it's.

Anna Lundberg:

Implies that if you have more work, by definition, you have less life, which

Anna Lundberg:

is the usual direction or in corporate context, when we're talking about having

Anna Lundberg:

more work life balance, the implication is, oh, you're going to work less so that

Anna Lundberg:

you can have more time for your family.

Anna Lundberg:

And I don't see it as that sort of zero sum game, I suppose I

Anna Lundberg:

see it as very much mutually reinforcing and a positive synergy.

Anna Lundberg:

So, you know, I joke that we can't quite make it seamless, but certainly if we're

Anna Lundberg:

striving for it to work harmoniously.

Anna Lundberg:

In everything from the practicalities of having a calendar to manage, you

Anna Lundberg:

know, we had um, school things we had to go and do or your calls and

Anna Lundberg:

everything just to make sure that works as well, and but also from how you're

Anna Lundberg:

showing up and who you are as a person.

Anna Lundberg:

For me it's so important, and I know it's an overused word, but to be myself, to

Anna Lundberg:

be authentic, and I'm sure Bob talked about that in the personal brand as well.

Anna Lundberg:

It makes it far easier for us all.

Anna Lundberg:

Let's face it.

Anna Lundberg:

It means that I can have a call with you, have these amazing, I'm lucky to

Anna Lundberg:

be working in an area where I could talk about these things for days.

Anna Lundberg:

It's things that I care about and it's sort of things I'm thinking

Anna Lundberg:

about all the time anyway.

Anna Lundberg:

And then I can, when we finished.

Anna Lundberg:

I'm actually going to keep working, but let's say it was the end of the

Anna Lundberg:

day, turn off the computer, close the door to my study, off I go.

Anna Lundberg:

So, work life integration is not about not having any boundaries, it's not

Anna Lundberg:

about working on your holiday and doing your laundry during, you know,

Anna Lundberg:

your working hours, necessarily.

Anna Lundberg:

But it is about finding a way to make it work for you.

Anna Lundberg:

And that requires, first of all, that you know what your priorities

Anna Lundberg:

are, what's important to you.

Anna Lundberg:

And then secondly, it does require some less sexy kind of

Anna Lundberg:

planning and structure and so on.

Anna Lundberg:

But to me, structure is what gives you the freedom.

Anna Lundberg:

Ironically, it can be hard for creators to kind of have that structure.

Anna Lundberg:

But I think, you know, if you want to make progress on certain goals,

Anna Lundberg:

if you want to actually then.

Anna Lundberg:

Have time freed up for family or holidays or hobbies or courses or whatever else.

Anna Lundberg:

And you do need to have a certain element of prioritization planning and structure

Anna Lundberg:

to make sure you hit those goals.

Anna Lundberg:

You get the things done that you want to get done so that now I can take

Anna Lundberg:

a breath, be present with my kids.

Anna Lundberg:

You know, go for a run, whatever it is I want to do and not worry about the

Anna Lundberg:

things I've kind of left on my to do list.

Anna Lundberg:

So as a concept I find work life integration to be much more

Jon Clayton:

makes much more sense, uh, now that you've explained that, that

Jon Clayton:

there is, yeah, the work life balance terminology isn't quite right, is it?

Jon Clayton:

What would be your top recommendations there?

Jon Clayton:

Just to kind of summarize everything.

Jon Clayton:

What would be your top recommendations for anyone that's thinking of starting

Jon Clayton:

a business or who maybe feels like their current business just isn't working

Jon Clayton:

right now and maybe they're feeling like they need to make some changes.

Jon Clayton:

Do you have any recommendations for, for those groups of people?

Anna Lundberg:

Yeah, absolutely.

Anna Lundberg:

So, so you mentioned a while back, self awareness, and I think

Anna Lundberg:

curiosity is a great place to start and understanding yourself.

Anna Lundberg:

And again, a little bit sort of those push pull reasons, whether it's a job

Anna Lundberg:

that you want to leave, or in fact that, as you said, you've recreated your job or

Anna Lundberg:

you've created something that's not quite fitting with how you wanted it to be.

Anna Lundberg:

It doesn't mean that you have to start from scratch by any means.

Anna Lundberg:

But just giving yourself the time to explore what's working, what's not

Anna Lundberg:

working so well, understanding yourself, your strengths, your preferences, your

Anna Lundberg:

personality, what do you like doing?

Anna Lundberg:

You know, what does that look like?

Anna Lundberg:

And that's, you know, it can take longer than you want perhaps, but it's the

Anna Lundberg:

absolute foundation for everything else.

Anna Lundberg:

If you then work out what you want, then you can work out the plan to get there.

Anna Lundberg:

You can get help from the right kind of person or.

Anna Lundberg:

course or whatever to fill those gaps.

Anna Lundberg:

And, and once you succeed, that success will be really personally

Anna Lundberg:

meaningful and rewarding to you.

Anna Lundberg:

So I'd say, you know, take this time and it's a good time of year to kind

Anna Lundberg:

of reflect on what's important to you.

Anna Lundberg:

And I think we should do that, uh, at least once a year, if not more

Anna Lundberg:

often, um, check in where are the gaps between where you are today,

Anna Lundberg:

and then to make it really tangible.

Anna Lundberg:

Just take little steps.

Anna Lundberg:

Just decide to make one shift.

Anna Lundberg:

You don't have to quit your job today.

Anna Lundberg:

You don't have to change your business model tomorrow.

Anna Lundberg:

But just thinking about how can you realign a little bit and you'd be

Anna Lundberg:

surprised even just shifting the way you're thinking about things,

Anna Lundberg:

asking different questions, showing up with a different energy can

Anna Lundberg:

actually Make a huge difference.

Anna Lundberg:

So dream big, have a big ambitious vision of something exciting and different

Anna Lundberg:

perhaps, but then start small with with little steps to get you there.

Jon Clayton:

Great advice.

Jon Clayton:

Thanks, Anna.

Jon Clayton:

Is there anything else that you'd like to share that we, we haven't already covered

Jon Clayton:

today in the course of the conversation?

Anna Lundberg:

Now I think we've covered plenty and I don't want

Anna Lundberg:

people to get too overwhelmed.

Anna Lundberg:

So again, you know, I hope it's been useful.

Anna Lundberg:

to think about both the overall, uh, perspective of, of defining what

Anna Lundberg:

success looks like for you, because I think a lot of us don't think in

Anna Lundberg:

those terms, and I certainly didn't.

Anna Lundberg:

I was very much on that conveyor belt of just kind of doing, doing, doing,

Anna Lundberg:

and looking up from time to time and thinking about, hang on a second, to, to

Anna Lundberg:

throw in another metaphor, is your ladder leaning against the wrong wall, right?

Anna Lundberg:

If you're climbing, climbing, climbing and you get to the top,

Anna Lundberg:

you're like, hang on, where am I?

Anna Lundberg:

This is not where I wanted to be.

Anna Lundberg:

I think that's a good sign that you want to change something.

Anna Lundberg:

And then just remembering why you started in the first place, right?

Anna Lundberg:

Just come back to those original reasons and find a way, you know, again, I've

Anna Lundberg:

been doing this for 10 years now.

Anna Lundberg:

I've had twists and turns and evolutions, but I'm always looking.

Anna Lundberg:

Or from time to time at least looking for ways to, to rethink where I'm

Anna Lundberg:

going, make sure it still works.

Anna Lundberg:

And my life, my goodness, has changed a lot.

Anna Lundberg:

You know, you mentioned when I left my job I was carefree and single, and then

Anna Lundberg:

I met someone and now I've got my little kids and you know, life changes, so.

Anna Lundberg:

So your evolution of success.

Anna Lundberg:

Is going to continue to, to change, but, but I think that's what

Anna Lundberg:

makes life exciting, isn't it?

Anna Lundberg:

It makes it interesting.

Anna Lundberg:

Otherwise, we'd be bored.

Anna Lundberg:

It's a journey, not a destination, as they say.

Anna Lundberg:

So, yeah, keep, keep, stay curious, keep your eyes open, and

Anna Lundberg:

keep taking those little steps.

Jon Clayton:

Absolutely.

Jon Clayton:

And it doesn't always go in a straight line, does it, that journey?

Jon Clayton:

We can kind of zigzag around a little bit along the way.

Jon Clayton:

I said earlier that we touched upon travel at the very beginning of our conversation.

Jon Clayton:

I said, we might swing back around to that.

Jon Clayton:

So before we wrap things up, um, I, I love travel and discovering new places.

Jon Clayton:

So could you tell me about.

Jon Clayton:

One of your favorite places and what you love about it.

Jon Clayton:

This could be near or far.

Jon Clayton:

Are there any Places that spring to mind that you'd just like to share

Jon Clayton:

with with me and the listeners.

Anna Lundberg:

Oh gosh, where, where to start?

Anna Lundberg:

I mean, I love so many places.

Anna Lundberg:

I have to, I have to fly a little flag for Poole, where I am now.

Anna Lundberg:

I didn't even know this.

Anna Lundberg:

place existed because my, my parents are Swedish.

Anna Lundberg:

So my whole life we would travel often to Sweden over the summer.

Anna Lundberg:

And so, which of course I loved in Christmas and I still do that now.

Anna Lundberg:

So we didn't do the typical English seaside holidays and I probably

Anna Lundberg:

shouldn't tell too many people about it because I just love it and it

Anna Lundberg:

does get busy during the summer, but I can see the Isle of Wight from

Anna Lundberg:

my window here at my standing desk.

Anna Lundberg:

Um, you know, every day the sea looks.

Anna Lundberg:

different.

Anna Lundberg:

It can be calm and still and then you have the paddle boarders out and you're

Anna Lundberg:

sort of contemplative and it's quiet and restful and very zen and then other

Anna Lundberg:

days, the other day I've never seen it so stormy and wild and then you've

Anna Lundberg:

got the kite surfers out and so on and you've always got the runners and the dog

Anna Lundberg:

owners out whatever the weather, right?

Anna Lundberg:

So it's always, but it gives such an energy to, you know, compared to,

Anna Lundberg:

I certainly miss the museums and, um, Culture and theatre and bars and

Anna Lundberg:

things of London, but my goodness, what a, what a quality of life to

Anna Lundberg:

live here by the sea, and it was always a lifelong dream of mine.

Anna Lundberg:

I was thinking more like Hawaii or something when I was younger when

Anna Lundberg:

I was dreaming of the beach, but, but, but I'm not gonna complain.

Anna Lundberg:

Pool is pretty beautiful, so there you go.

Anna Lundberg:

Of all the places in the world, I've given you Dorset in the UK.

Jon Clayton:

I have I've never been to Dorset and I've always I've wanted

Jon Clayton:

to go I'm actually I'm reading a book at the moment, um, and actually

Jon Clayton:

part of the story in the book, it's a real life story actually,

Jon Clayton:

part of it takes place in Dorset.

Jon Clayton:

So yes, it's on my list of places to visit at some point.

Jon Clayton:

So, uh,

Anna Lundberg:

I

Anna Lundberg:

should say, you know, we're very close to the New Forest as well.

Anna Lundberg:

We're a couple of hours from London.

Anna Lundberg:

It's not just the beach.

Anna Lundberg:

I just happen to have a soft spot for, for the beach, but yeah, it's um,

Anna Lundberg:

yeah, it's, it's very well located.

Anna Lundberg:

We went to Devon last summer, um, because actually, obviously we're sort

Anna Lundberg:

of closer towards Devon and Cornwall now, so it's a great place to explore.

Anna Lundberg:

So definitely come look me up when you're down here.

Anna Lundberg:

We'll go for a

Jon Clayton:

Absolutely.

Jon Clayton:

I will let you know when I'm in the area for sure.

Jon Clayton:

That's been absolutely fantastic.

Jon Clayton:

And I thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your knowledge and

Jon Clayton:

telling us all about your framework.

Jon Clayton:

Could you please just remind everyone again where they can grab

Jon Clayton:

the, well, where they can take the five pillars business assessment.

Anna Lundberg:

Yeah, absolutely.

Anna Lundberg:

So if it's useful, you know, and I hope you found my perspective, um, inspiring

Anna Lundberg:

and, and it's kind of prompted some different thoughts because of course,

Anna Lundberg:

again, we can get so deep into our own expertise and I love John that you're

Anna Lundberg:

building a building, bringing people from different industries and so on

Anna Lundberg:

to bring those different perspectives.

Anna Lundberg:

I think that's so powerful.

Anna Lundberg:

And so the scorecard that we talked about with the five pillars, there's

Anna Lundberg:

10 questions to answer on each one, just to give you an idea of perhaps

Anna Lundberg:

where you could do with some more work.

Anna Lundberg:

Maybe you want to work on your confidence, or maybe as we've discussed today, your

Anna Lundberg:

personal brand could be an interesting area that's like onestepoutside.

Anna Lundberg:

com forward slash scorecard.

Jon Clayton:

Great.

Jon Clayton:

And if people would like to connect with you online, where would be the

Jon Clayton:

best place for people to do that?

Anna Lundberg:

Find your chosen platform and I'll probably be there.

Anna Lundberg:

So, um, feel free to get in touch, find me on LinkedIn.

Anna Lundberg:

You should be able to find me.

Anna Lundberg:

Alas, there is a famous actress with my name, so my personal branding is

Anna Lundberg:

quite challenging, but hopefully if you put in Anna Lundberg coach, um,

Anna Lundberg:

or, you know, you'll, you'll find me on, on LinkedIn, Instagram, wherever.

Anna Lundberg:

So I'd love to chat and hear your insights as well.

Anna Lundberg:

And, and of course, you know, you'd mentioned business model and so on.

Anna Lundberg:

Think that, hang on a second, um, that wouldn't work for me or I've got this

Anna Lundberg:

idea or so, and I'd be really interested.

Anna Lundberg:

I always like to be, um, you know, challenged with different questions.

Anna Lundberg:

So do get in touch if you have a different example or something

Anna Lundberg:

that you're a bit stuck on.

Anna Lundberg:

I'd love to hear about it and see if we can figure it out.

Jon Clayton:

Oh, that's awesome.

Jon Clayton:

Very kind.

Jon Clayton:

Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Anna Lundberg:

You, John.

Anna Lundberg:

Such a pleasure.

Anna Lundberg:

Take care.

Jon Clayton:

Next time, I'll be chatting with James Talman about the national

Jon Clayton:

Federation of roofing contractors and how they can help architecture practices.

Jon Clayton:

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Architecture Business Club.

Jon Clayton:

If you liked this episode, think other people might enjoy it.

Jon Clayton:

Or just want to show your support, then please visit podchaser.com.

Jon Clayton:

Search for Architecture Business Club and leave a glowing five-star review.

Jon Clayton:

It would mean so much to me and makes it easier for new

Jon Clayton:

listeners to discover the show.

Jon Clayton:

If you just want to connect with me, you can do that on most social media

Jon Clayton:

platforms, just search for @mrjonclayton.

Jon Clayton:

The best place to connect with me online though is on LinkedIn.

Jon Clayton:

You can find a link to my profile in the show notes.

Jon Clayton:

Remember running your architecture business doesn't have to be hard.

Jon Clayton:

And you don't need to do it alone.

Jon Clayton:

This is Architecture Business Club.

Show artwork for Architecture Business Club - For Architects, Architectural Technologists, Surveyors & Designers

About the Podcast

Architecture Business Club - For Architects, Architectural Technologists, Surveyors & Designers
Helping busy architecture professionals build a better business with actionable tips and tactics.
Architecture Business Club is the weekly podcast to help solo and small firm architecture business owners build a profitable, future-proof architecture practice that both you and your clients love! It’s an inclusive place (for ALL architecture business owners). So whether you’re an Architect, Architectural Technologist, or Architectural Designer…If you sell architectural services and want to improve the way you do things…This is THE podcast for you.

I’m Jon Clayton, your show host, and a Chartered Architectural Technologist based in the UK. I’ve been in architecture for over two decades and running my own (solo) practice for 10 years+.

Each week you’ll hear from inspiring people from the world of architecture and business who share actionable tips to help you improve how you work, save time, or make more money. I’ll also share my own experiences running an architecture business in occasional solo episodes. We cover everything from mindset, money, business strategy, sales & marketing, productivity, systems & workflows, client experience, outsourcing, software, technology, and much more.

Episodes are kept as short as possible by cutting out the fluff and getting straight to the point. So expect interview episodes of around 30 minutes or less, and solo episodes of 5 to 15 minutes.

New episodes are released every Thursday at 6am GMT / 2am EST.

Welcome to the Club!

About your host

Profile picture for Jon Clayton

Jon Clayton

I’m Jon. A Chartered Architectural Technologist and the founder of Architecture Business Club. I've been working in architecture for over two decades and running my own architectural design business for over ten of those years. My mission is to help you build a better architecture business on your terms. So if you're a sole practitioner (or small practice) architect, architectural technologist, or architectural designer, I want to help YOU. I'm a Northerner but now live with my family in Norfolk, UK. Outside of work, I'm a guitar tottin', kayaking, movie trivia buff.