Episode 10

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Published on:

4th Jan 2024

Why You Should Think More Like A CEO with Janet Murray | 010

In this episode, Jon discusses the CEO mindset with Janet Murray, an online business strategist and copywriter. They delve into why many small business owners or practitioners behave more like freelancers rather than CEOs. Janet highlights how tracking data, developing business skills, and creating commercially viable services or products are key components of CEO thinking. She emphasises having a forward planning strategy, sales skills, and the confidence to assert the value of one's services.

Today's Guest...

Janet Murray is an online business strategist & copywriter.

She’s the creator of the 2024 Courageous CEO Strategic Business Planner & Resource Kit (along with a whole host of content kits that save time on content planning/creation) - and the host of the Courageous CEO podcast.

Janet has been podcasting for around a decade and has published more than a thousand podcast episodes.

As a copywriter, Janet specialises in creating - and writing strategic copywriting campaigns. Strategic copywriting is about publishing the right content at the right time to achieve a specific goal - which is why it’s typically more effective than other approaches to content.

She’s also a keynote speaker who has spoken on big stages all over the world including The Youpreneur Summit (London), CMA Live (Edinburgh), and Inbound (Boston, USA).

Janet plays the piano, sings, runs, and talks to her 3 cats (although not at the same time). She’s also the mum of a teenage daughter and is a long-suffering ‘football widow’.

Episode Highlights...

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

00:50 Getting to Know Janet Murray

01:52 Janet's Unique Journey: Starting a Choir in 30 Days

04:18 The Importance of CEO Mindset in Small Business

07:04 The Difference Between Freelancers and CEOs

09:34 The Power of Strategic Planning and Data Tracking

13:52 Understanding Commercial Viability and Value

17:14 The Role of Confidence and Expertise in Business

18:46 The Power of Saying No and Understanding Your Value

19:27 Janet's Strategic Business Planner and Resource Kit

41:12 Closing Remarks and Future Episode Teaser

Key Takeaways...

👉 Small business owners should adopt a CEO mindset to strategically steer their business. This involves setting clear annual and quarterly financial targets, understanding important sales periods, and having a data-driven approach to business growth.

👉 Understanding and harnessing the value of your business is crucial. This could be honing in on unique selling points of the business, establishing effective systems, or creating assets that generate recurring income.

👉 Being able to effectively communicate the value of your product or service is important. This includes being able to articulate the transformation your service provides and having the confidence to sell it.

👉 Not all business owners are CEOs, but thinking like a CEO can help to grow a business. For the business to be deemed a business, it should have the potential to operate even without the presence of the owner.

👉 Pricing should reflect the value and transformation a product or service offers, not just the time it takes to deliver it. Professionals should be confident in their pricing and not underestimate their worth.

👉 Instead of trying to do everything, focusing on the right marketing and sales activities that strategically align with business goals will drive success. If a business owner needs immediate income, they should consider tactics that yield short-term results, such as reaching out to potential clients directly.

👉 A successful business is not just about generating income, but also about creating a legacy or adding value to the market. Capturing important data and monitoring the business strategy can help achieve this.

Links Mentioned In The Episode...

USE COUPON CODE ‘JON97’ TO GET £50 OFF Janet’s 2024 Courageous CEO Strategic Business Planner & Resource Kit via the link below.👇

https://janetmurray.co.uk/courageous-ceo-planner-2024/

Janet’s Website

https://www.janetmurray.co.uk

Janet’s Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/janmurrayuk/

Janet’s Facebook Page

https://www.facebook.com/janetmurrayofficial

Janet’s Twitter

https://twitter.com/jan_murray 

Janet’s Linkedin

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janet-murray74/

Courageous CEO Podcast (Apple)

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/courageous-content-with-janet-murray/id1569783857

Courageous CEO Podcast (Spotify) 

https://open.spotify.com/show/0hmntpM6IZEu7vKNc4V6Vn

What To Do Next...

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGZOAac4salmSX0wWRT7JUg

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https://mrjonclayton.co.uk/

In The Next Episode...

Next time Jon chats with Laura Robinson about bite-sized one-to-one experiences (called First Date Offers) that can lead your clients toward your higher-priced services.

Transcript
Jon Clayton:

Many, so practitioners want to achieve big results, but when

Jon Clayton:

it comes to business, behave more like a freelancer or a contractor.

Jon Clayton:

So what would happen if you started to think more like a C E O.

Jon Clayton:

This is what I discussed with Janet Marie on this episode of architecture

Jon Clayton:

business club, the weekly podcast for solo and small firm architecture

Jon Clayton:

practice owners, just like you.

Jon Clayton:

He wants to build a profitable future-proof architecture business

Jon Clayton:

that fits around their life.

Jon Clayton:

I'm the host, John Clayton.

Jon Clayton:

If you want to get notified, when I release a new episode.

Jon Clayton:

And get access to free resources and exclusive offers.

Jon Clayton:

Then go to Mr.

Jon Clayton:

John clayton.co.uk forward slash ABC.

Jon Clayton:

And sign up to my free weekly email newsletter.

Jon Clayton:

Now let's dig in to thinking like a CEO.

Jon Clayton:

Janet Murray is an online business strategist and copywriter.

Jon Clayton:

She's the creator of the 2024 Courageous CEO strategic business planner and

Jon Clayton:

resource kit, along with a whole host of content kits that save time on

Jon Clayton:

content planning and creation, and the host of the Courageous CEO podcast.

Jon Clayton:

Janet has been podcasting for around a decade and has published more

Jon Clayton:

than a thousand podcast episodes.

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As a copywriter, Janet specializes in Creating and writing

Jon Clayton:

strategic copywriting campaigns.

Jon Clayton:

She's also a keynote speaker who has spoken on big stages around the world.

Jon Clayton:

To grab a copy of Janet's 2024 Courageous, CEO, strategic Business Planner and

Jon Clayton:

Resource Kit, visit Janet murray.co.uk.

Jon Clayton:

Janet, Welcome to Architecture Business Club.

Janet Murray:

Thanks so much for having me.

Jon Clayton:

Oh, it's an absolute pleasure.

Jon Clayton:

Um, Janet, before we get talking about the topic that we've got in mind today,

Jon Clayton:

I've just got to ask you about this.

Jon Clayton:

I heard that you, you recently started a choir in less than 30

Jon Clayton:

days, which is absolutely incredible.

Jon Clayton:

How did that come about?

Janet Murray:

Well, when I make a decision, it tends to happen quick,

Janet Murray:

but, but basically I'm a runner as well.

Janet Murray:

Um, so I've had this idea for many years now that it would be amazing.

Janet Murray:

Um, so I've done park run, um, every Saturday.

Janet Murray:

It would be amazing during December to.

Janet Murray:

to, uh, see choirs and have some Christmas music, um, at the finish.

Janet Murray:

Um, I'm a big sort of believer in in, in just testing things out and, and minimum

Janet Murray:

viable product, just get it out there.

Janet Murray:

So, um, within, I think it was 23 days, actually, um, I had a Facebook page,

Janet Murray:

I had a full practice backing track.

Janet Murray:

We'd had our first rehearsal, um, and, um, yeah, it went well.

Janet Murray:

And.

Janet Murray:

It's something that I think potentially could be a business idea in the future.

Janet Murray:

But like I say, I'm a big believer in like testing things out, you know, not

Janet Murray:

spending too much time in resources and actually getting the format and the

Janet Murray:

delivery right, you know, before you, you kind of put something out there.

Janet Murray:

So I was able to actually apply a lot of my business skills, but it's

Janet Murray:

still really scary because, um, I've done a lot of singing over the years

Janet Murray:

and a lot of music, but I've never.

Janet Murray:

So, yeah, so quite, uh, yeah, quite, quite, it's quite scary and really

Janet Murray:

took me out of my comfort zone.

Jon Clayton:

It's good sometimes to push yourself out of your

Jon Clayton:

comfort zone though, isn't it?

Jon Clayton:

I think that's absolutely amazing that you managed to get it going so quickly.

Jon Clayton:

Um, Janet, we, We met a number of years ago, actually, I first discovered you

Jon Clayton:

actually, it was via your podcast, which I mentioned in the introduction,

Jon Clayton:

you've recorded over a thousand podcast episodes, which is absolutely incredible

Jon Clayton:

and your podcast was, I discovered it when I was wanting to learn more

Jon Clayton:

about marketing because it was an area that was quite a weakness of mine and

Jon Clayton:

it was an absolute treasure trove.

Jon Clayton:

And it was actually.

Jon Clayton:

Okay.

Jon Clayton:

It was one of the first, if not the first podcast that I ever started listening to.

Jon Clayton:

Wasn't really into podcasts before that.

Jon Clayton:

So we have quite a connection there.

Jon Clayton:

So it's a huge honor to have you as a guest on my podcast.

Jon Clayton:

However, today we're going to talk about something a little bit different.

Jon Clayton:

So.

Jon Clayton:

The time that this is going out, we're at the start of the new year.

Jon Clayton:

Um, so this is a perfect time to take a fresh look at how you

Jon Clayton:

think about your business and of yourself as a business owner, we're

Jon Clayton:

going to talk about CEO mindset.

Jon Clayton:

So thinking like a CEO, um, with that in mind, firstly, in your experience, how

Jon Clayton:

do most small business owners think of themselves and their business normally?

Janet Murray:

I think what I've discovered over 10 years of working with small

Janet Murray:

business owners, and I've had actually had my own business for more than 20 years.

Janet Murray:

I was a self employed journalist and editor before that.

Janet Murray:

But what I've discovered is a lot of people behave like

Janet Murray:

freelancers or contractors.

Janet Murray:

And, And then they, they go, Oh, like, well, why have I got inconsistent income?

Janet Murray:

Like, you know, why am I not able to predict how much money I've

Janet Murray:

got coming in each month or year?

Janet Murray:

Why is it, why, why are things not growing?

Janet Murray:

Why, why are things stagnating?

Janet Murray:

And it's interesting because a lot of people decide to run their own

Janet Murray:

business because they want to leave the corporate lifestyle behind.

Janet Murray:

People behave like a sort they've got the kind of freelancer

Janet Murray:

contractor mentality And that is the kind of gig mentality, isn't it?

Janet Murray:

You're getting a new client, you're delivering, and then

Janet Murray:

you're going out looking for more.

Janet Murray:

And it has taken me a long time to be able to kind of articulate this,

Janet Murray:

but I got to the stage in my business where I was getting so many clients

Janet Murray:

who were coming to me for help with marketing and content, because that

Janet Murray:

is kind of like my specialist area.

Janet Murray:

And I was finding that they didn't know how to do like basic stuff, like how

Janet Murray:

to get a client or how to you know, set their financial targets for the year

Janet Murray:

and how to make sure they hit them.

Janet Murray:

And it sounds a bit silly, but you know, knowing how to get a client or knowing how

Janet Murray:

to get clients, that is far more important than knowing how to set up a Facebook

Janet Murray:

page or Instagram account or whatever.

Janet Murray:

But a lot of the advice out there will be like, Oh, you've

Janet Murray:

started your own business.

Janet Murray:

Oh, you need to get on LinkedIn or you need to be on TikTok or, you

Janet Murray:

know, whatever, YouTube or whatever.

Janet Murray:

And yeah, I mean, having a podcast for me has You know, it's definitely helped

Janet Murray:

me grow my audience and my network, but there's a couple of things about it.

Janet Murray:

That might not actually be the best route for you.

Janet Murray:

There might be quicker and easier ways and ways that are

Janet Murray:

more suited to your personality.

Janet Murray:

Um, and the other side of it is, yes, you know, a lot of us work for ourselves

Janet Murray:

because we don't want to All that corporate stuff and all the meetings

Janet Murray:

and strategies and targets, but actually there's a lot of useful stuff in there.

Janet Murray:

You know, if you were to ask, um, somebody at sort of C suite level, or you to ask

Janet Murray:

somebody, a CEO of a successful business, like what are your financial targets?

Janet Murray:

Like what are your key sales periods?

Janet Murray:

Like, you know, what's coming up?

Janet Murray:

They might not tell you, they probably wouldn't because that's

Janet Murray:

commercially sensitive data.

Janet Murray:

But they would know.

Janet Murray:

And so I feel like there's a lot of people out there who are kind of expecting CEO

Janet Murray:

results, but actually they're behaving like a freelancer or a contractor.

Janet Murray:

And I should say at this point, there's absolutely nothing wrong with

Janet Murray:

being a freelancer or contractor.

Janet Murray:

That's absolutely fine.

Janet Murray:

But if, but if you are going to approach your business in that way,

Janet Murray:

you're going to get that kind of feast and famine and kind of not knowing

Janet Murray:

where your next client's coming from.

Janet Murray:

And so for me, it's all about.

Janet Murray:

A CEO of a, um, a successful business and growing business that's, you know,

Janet Murray:

growing in the right direction will be strategic and we'll be like, okay,

Janet Murray:

what is it that I want to happen here?

Janet Murray:

And what is the best way for me to, to get to that destination?

Janet Murray:

And that journey isn't going to look the same for everybody.

Janet Murray:

And, and just as every business, you know, they're going to be focusing on different

Janet Murray:

things and using different strategies.

Janet Murray:

And the other thing I would say about marketing as well is that.

Janet Murray:

A lot of people get confused with marketing marketing

Janet Murray:

and content is a tactic.

Janet Murray:

It's a tactic the same as, you know, some, some people go to

Janet Murray:

networking meetings or some people.

Janet Murray:

By paid, you know, invest in paid sponsorship or whatever, and the

Janet Murray:

crucial thing is, do you know what it is you want to achieve and

Janet Murray:

then choosing the right strategy?

Janet Murray:

Um, whereas I think a lot of people, the kind of freelancer, um, contractor

Janet Murray:

mentality is just kind of like, well, everybody else is getting on

Janet Murray:

TikTok or they're doing LinkedIn or.

Janet Murray:

People are trying YouTube.

Janet Murray:

That sounds good.

Janet Murray:

And so you end up doing things without really knowing why you're doing them.

Janet Murray:

So you end up wasting time and then you're like, I'm still not

Janet Murray:

getting regular consistent income.

Janet Murray:

Does that kind of make sense?

Jon Clayton:

Yeah, I think so.

Jon Clayton:

And, um, I mean, it's, that's just a, such a common scenario that, um,

Jon Clayton:

folks will decide to start up their own business, whether that's in architecture

Jon Clayton:

or any other industry that generally they are doing a job or profession

Jon Clayton:

and they'll decide to start their own business and they know how to do the job.

Jon Clayton:

The whole business building side of it and that strategy side of it is usually

Jon Clayton:

often it can be somewhat lacking.

Jon Clayton:

It certainly was when I started out with my architecture

Jon Clayton:

business and you end up then.

Jon Clayton:

You can go down the rabbit hole, particularly with social media I think

Jon Clayton:

sometimes people jump on that bandwagon and do it just because to be seen to be

Jon Clayton:

doing it because that's what everybody else does without that strategy behind it.

Jon Clayton:

If that's the way that a lot of small business owners are

Jon Clayton:

operating, What's the alternative?

Jon Clayton:

What is the different way to think about things when it comes to, you know,

Jon Clayton:

running and growing a successful business?

Janet Murray:

Well, I mean, it sounds a bit boring, I suppose.

Janet Murray:

Um, but it is about strategy.

Janet Murray:

So it's about, but it's actually really simple.

Janet Murray:

It's about sort of looking across the year.

Janet Murray:

So like, this is going out, I think in early 2024 and just starting

Janet Murray:

with those questions, like.

Janet Murray:

How much do I want to earn?

Janet Murray:

It's amazing, actually, how many business owners I say, like, how

Janet Murray:

much do you want or need to earn?

Janet Murray:

And they, they either don't know or they don't want to say, um, and there's

Janet Murray:

a difference between how much you need to earn, like to cover your, you

Janet Murray:

know, your, your basic commitments and to meet your household commitments

Janet Murray:

and then what you want to earn.

Janet Murray:

So that's the first thing is like, what is it that you, you Want to

Janet Murray:

earn or need to earn, but also being able to set realistic targets.

Janet Murray:

Cause I could like put my thumb in the air now and say, yeah, I want to earn

Janet Murray:

a hundred grand, but like, if I haven't actually thought about how I'm going to

Janet Murray:

get there, a lot of people as well will sort of say they'll pluck a figure out the

Janet Murray:

air and, and it's not based in any data.

Janet Murray:

Again, I'm conscious.

Janet Murray:

This all sounds really boring.

Janet Murray:

I'm actually quite a creative person, but I sort of feel like taking this

Janet Murray:

strategic approach to business.

Janet Murray:

That's what frees you up to be more creative and to.

Janet Murray:

experiment and, you know, and try things.

Janet Murray:

You can't just say I want to earn 100 grand or 150 grand, like,

Janet Murray:

well, what did you earn last year?

Janet Murray:

What did you earn in the last quarter of last year?

Janet Murray:

Like, how was that made up that income?

Janet Murray:

Like what sort of clients?

Janet Murray:

What sort of contracts?

Janet Murray:

And what strategies did you use to get those clients?

Janet Murray:

What worked well, but what didn't, what didn't work well.

Janet Murray:

So and really, it's about making the right decisions and just

Janet Murray:

making things easy for yourself.

Janet Murray:

But, and, and it's just taking that big, I often talk about it as being

Janet Murray:

like a photographer and taking like a wide shot, like across your year,

Janet Murray:

just looking at three quarters.

Janet Murray:

Okay.

Janet Murray:

Like what, what's going on, depending on what industry you're working mainly with,

Janet Murray:

you might find this certain peak periods that there might be busier times or times

Janet Murray:

where people are more likely to invest.

Janet Murray:

It could be that, you know, you work it.

Janet Murray:

With industries whereby, you know, they have money to spend in April or they

Janet Murray:

have money to spend in March because they're getting a new budget or whatever.

Janet Murray:

So it's about really kind of understanding that rise and fall of your own business.

Janet Murray:

Now, if you're new in business, if you've just started as a freelancer

Janet Murray:

or contractor, obviously you, you may not have that data to draw on.

Janet Murray:

Um, so again, it's probably not a great idea just to go and

Janet Murray:

pluck a figure out of your head.

Janet Murray:

It's probably better to start conservatively and then

Janet Murray:

kind of build up from there.

Janet Murray:

Um.

Janet Murray:

But it's really about just looking at that bigger picture, um, looking

Janet Murray:

at what you need to earn, what you want to earn, if you want to increase

Janet Murray:

on last year, like what's realistic, like, you know, doubling your income

Janet Murray:

might be realistic, but actually what would need to happen, like how many

Janet Murray:

conversations would you need to have?

Janet Murray:

What strategies would you need to use?

Janet Murray:

And that's the bit when I talk about marketing is that is that

Janet Murray:

people do marketing without really knowing what their goal is.

Janet Murray:

It's about going, what's my goal?

Janet Murray:

And so if I want to, you know, earn 50 grand in the next quarter or whatever,

Janet Murray:

what are the best activities for me to do?

Janet Murray:

Um, and it might be that proactive outreach, it might be.

Janet Murray:

as simple as making a list of all the people that you've worked with before.

Janet Murray:

Uh, and I have template templates for this kind of thing in my strategic business

Janet Murray:

planner, um, reaching out to them and booking in some calls or whatever it,

Janet Murray:

it may not be as hard as you think.

Janet Murray:

Um, and also thinking about how much time you want to spend on marketing.

Janet Murray:

And cause you know, we were just talking before we started recording this about,

Janet Murray:

um, About, you was talking about creating like video shorts and things to go with

Janet Murray:

this and you know, there, there can be actually quite a lot of production time,

Janet Murray:

um, in, in, in terms of doing something like a podcast or a YouTube channel, which

Janet Murray:

is great, you know, uh, that's definitely what doesn't mean it's not worth doing.

Janet Murray:

But you also have to be realistic about not only the time that it

Janet Murray:

will take you, but also how long you would expect to see results.

Janet Murray:

So the other thing is, is asking yourself like, how soon do I need results?

Janet Murray:

Like, if you wanna get clients in the next 30 days, then a

Janet Murray:

YouTube channel or podcast.

Janet Murray:

It's probably not going to be your priority because, um, yeah, some people

Janet Murray:

listen, I don't know about you, John, but some people listen to my podcast

Janet Murray:

for years, like, and when they buy a thing, you know, like, yes, it's great.

Janet Murray:

Cause they're building a relationship and you're building your authority and

Janet Murray:

your credibility, but they're probably not going to listen to one episode or

Janet Murray:

see one social media posts and buy.

Janet Murray:

So in the meantime, you're going to have to be using some different strategies,

Janet Murray:

which is probably going to be more proactive, like, reaching out to people

Janet Murray:

proactively, um, and, and actually being.

Janet Murray:

Really good about following up.

Janet Murray:

So I talk about it like a proactive outreach campaign.

Janet Murray:

It might be going to networking.

Janet Murray:

It might be, getting yourself along to the right events, but

Janet Murray:

it's really about understanding what it is you need to achieve.

Janet Murray:

And crucially, what's the timescale, because if you're using, um,

Janet Murray:

so something like a podcast, I wouldn't expect or social media, I

Janet Murray:

wouldn't expect you to see results.

Janet Murray:

before 90 days or certainly not big, you know, big results.

Janet Murray:

Often it will take years.

Janet Murray:

So if you're using strategies that typically take longer than 90 days

Janet Murray:

to get results and you're expecting money in the bank this month or

Janet Murray:

next month, then you're constantly going to be feeling disappointed.

Janet Murray:

You're going to be stressed, but if you're going, okay, well, yeah, you

Janet Murray:

know, long term I do need to develop my brands and I want to be a thought

Janet Murray:

leader and have authority in my industry.

Janet Murray:

So yes, I will do that podcast or the YouTube or, you know,

Janet Murray:

build my profile on LinkedIn.

Janet Murray:

But actually, in the meantime, I still need to be, um, getting myself

Janet Murray:

clients and getting work lined up.

Janet Murray:

And ironically, that's the bit that can free you up to do the

Janet Murray:

more creative stuff as well.

Janet Murray:

You know, like if you're not worrying about where your next client's coming

Janet Murray:

from, um, does that kind of make sense?

Jon Clayton:

Yeah, I think so.

Jon Clayton:

Yeah.

Jon Clayton:

So actually spending a little bit of time, maybe doing some of the.

Jon Clayton:

Maybe for some people, the boring, unsexy type stuff, where you sit down

Jon Clayton:

with a spreadsheet or a notepad and pen, and actually just be a little

Jon Clayton:

bit more strategic about planning out your year, thinking about what your

Jon Clayton:

goals are, what direction you want to go in, how you're going to get there.

Jon Clayton:

And then when it comes to the marketing side of things, you mentioned

Jon Clayton:

about those different options and all being, they're all sorts of

Jon Clayton:

different tactics, aren't they?

Jon Clayton:

But picking the right one to align with your goals, as you mentioned, if you.

Jon Clayton:

needing to get some money in, the next month.

Jon Clayton:

Like you don't want to launch a YouTube channel.

Jon Clayton:

Something I wanted to just kind of touch upon though, is this thing about.

Jon Clayton:

Being a CEO.

Jon Clayton:

So many small business owners, particularly sole practitioners, they

Jon Clayton:

won't consider themselves to be a CEO.

Jon Clayton:

And dare I say it, some of them may not even know what a CEO is

Jon Clayton:

like, but what does that even mean?

Jon Clayton:

So for those that aren't familiar with the term, could you just

Jon Clayton:

explain like, what is a CEO?

Janet Murray:

that's such a good question.

Janet Murray:

And funnily enough, I think I address it in my, in my podcast, my, my training

Janet Murray:

that goes along with my, um, business strategy planner, because yeah, I don't

Janet Murray:

think I would really know what a CEO was.

Janet Murray:

And I kind of knew the CEO was like the head honcho, but I didn't

Janet Murray:

really understand what that meant.

Janet Murray:

But basically it's your chief executive officer.

Janet Murray:

So that's the person who's, you know, leading the organization and beneath

Janet Murray:

that, and if you've worked in corporate, you'll, you'll know that you've got your

Janet Murray:

C suite, so you might have, you know, sales or marketing or other kind of

Janet Murray:

key, uh, finance, you know, departments where there's, there's somebody kind

Janet Murray:

of leading, um, that department.

Janet Murray:

Um, but I saw a really interesting post on, on LinkedIn recently, which I had to

Janet Murray:

respond to where this lady was saying.

Janet Murray:

And I really like her stuff actually, but she was saying, oh, oh, isn't it

Janet Murray:

annoying when people say that they're a CEO of a business and obviously having

Janet Murray:

a podcast called the Courageous CEO Podcast, I had to like jump on there.

Janet Murray:

And I said, well, yeah, I know what you mean.

Janet Murray:

I said, and I personally wouldn't, if somebody said to me, you know,

Janet Murray:

sometimes when you go to someone's website and it says, oh, um,

Janet Murray:

like we do this and we do that.

Janet Murray:

And you know, it's just the one person.

Janet Murray:

And she was going, oh, you know, they say I'm a CEO, but, um, you

Janet Murray:

know, it's just me and my cat.

Janet Murray:

But for me, I literally do have a cat on my desk at the moment with me, but,

Janet Murray:

um, but for me, it's more about being as calling yourself a CEO, tell people

Janet Murray:

that that's what you're calling yourself.

Janet Murray:

It's just, just seeing, seeing yourself as having a business, um, rather than,

Janet Murray:

than being a freelancer or contractor.

Janet Murray:

And actually, just to be honest, something I often say to people, and it often stops

Janet Murray:

them in their tracks is, If you're a freelancer, a contractor, you don't really

Janet Murray:

have a business because if you stopped doing what you were doing tomorrow, like

Janet Murray:

you've got nothing to sell, your business wouldn't be able to run without you.

Janet Murray:

So you don't have a business.

Janet Murray:

And so actually some of the episodes on my Courageous CEO podcast, and this is

Janet Murray:

why I changed my own content strategy a little bit because I wanted to.

Janet Murray:

attract maybe a different sort of business owner or more of the type

Janet Murray:

of business owner that I think really get where I'm coming from with this.

Janet Murray:

So I've, I've done episodes on growing a business to sell or, you know,

Janet Murray:

generating recurring revenue or, or, you know, finding ways, um, to

Janet Murray:

make your business work without you.

Janet Murray:

Now, some people will.

Janet Murray:

Some people think, Oh, that means I need an agency or I need a practice,

Janet Murray:

but it isn't necessarily that, but thinking about, well, you know, even

Janet Murray:

if there's just one or two of you, like, how can I create a business,

Janet Murray:

which isn't reliant on me being in front of my clients all the time?

Janet Murray:

Because the CEO isn't, you know, the CEO's.

Janet Murray:

traveling or doing meetings or off somewhere.

Janet Murray:

Now the business doesn't grind to a halt, and I think that is the difference.

Janet Murray:

It's the difference between having a business that is just you basically

Janet Murray:

delivering, and if you're not around to deliver, nothing happens, but also

Janet Murray:

you're not creating anything of value.

Janet Murray:

Um, and actually you don't have to have a practice to have

Janet Murray:

something of value to sell.

Janet Murray:

It could be like in my case, um, I have a small team of contractors, but I don't.

Janet Murray:

I don't actually have anybody on staff, but I've got assets.

Janet Murray:

So I've got digital products that generate recurring income.

Janet Murray:

I've got my planner and the resources go alongside it.

Janet Murray:

I've basically got things that, that to the right person will be valuable.

Janet Murray:

So somebody come along and want to buy it.

Janet Murray:

Obviously, if you want that to happen, having proper systems and processes

Janet Murray:

in place in your business, there's lots of things that you can do.

Janet Murray:

I've got a podcast episode about this, um, to make your business more value.

Janet Murray:

valuable, but that's really what I'm talking about is having a business

Janet Murray:

that if you're not able to show up one day or you're sick, or you've got

Janet Murray:

something else going on, there are ways.

Janet Murray:

And it doesn't mean there's like one way for that to happen, but it could run

Janet Murray:

without you and there's so many different models, but you don't have a bit.

Janet Murray:

If you're a freelancer or a contractor, you don't have a business basically,

Janet Murray:

because you're in business, you might say, but you don't have a business.

Jon Clayton:

And this is exactly what happened with me, I'd decided

Jon Clayton:

I was going to start a business and I created another job.

Jon Clayton:

So that, that was me, and I was going to ask a question, which I think you've

Jon Clayton:

kind of answered it already, just about how, um, are all small business owners

Jon Clayton:

really CEOs, whether they call themselves that or not, but I think from what you've

Jon Clayton:

explained that all business owners, even kind of freelancers or those starting out

Jon Clayton:

to grow their business, Whether they call themselves a CEO, they probably should try

Jon Clayton:

and think like a CEO to at least do some of those activities like the strategic

Jon Clayton:

planning that many of them don't do, but actually until they get to the point

Jon Clayton:

where they've developed the business enough in whichever direction it goes,

Jon Clayton:

whether that's, um, creating products that can be sold without them needing

Jon Clayton:

to be present or building a team to help deliver the services that actually,

Jon Clayton:

unless it runs without them there, So It isn't actually really a business yet.

Jon Clayton:

Yeah.

Janet Murray:

around or you, you know, you were unwell or you weren't able to

Janet Murray:

work for whatever reason, that business just wouldn't operate, would it?

Janet Murray:

Um, and that's why I say there's nothing wrong with being a

Janet Murray:

freelancer or contractor.

Janet Murray:

If that's how you want to work, then great.

Janet Murray:

I did it for years and I absolutely loved it.

Janet Murray:

But if you're thinking, well, actually I want to grow something

Janet Murray:

that possibly I could scale or sell, or there isn't really, that, that

Janet Murray:

maybe I can retire early or, or maybe I can, uh, reduce my hours and

Janet Murray:

build a team to, you know, something that's an asset, that something's of

Janet Murray:

value, or it isn't always about money.

Janet Murray:

It could be about leaving a legacy or whatever, whatever you build.

Janet Murray:

That can't really just be reliant on you because otherwise it's not a business.

Janet Murray:

And it's actually the first time I've said it, but you've helped me make

Janet Murray:

a better distinction, really, which is kind of like you're in business.

Janet Murray:

But you don't have a business.

Janet Murray:

I think if you see what I mean, you're in business, you're doing business

Janet Murray:

with people, but that's not the same as having a business because a

Janet Murray:

business will generally be something that has some commercial value that,

Janet Murray:

you know, somebody, the right person may be interested in investing in.

Janet Murray:

And also, I mean, for me, CEO thinking is also deciding whether

Janet Murray:

you want that as well, because.

Janet Murray:

Having a practice or a team or having, um, even their passive income.

Janet Murray:

I have so called passive income problem products.

Janet Murray:

They're not passive at all.

Janet Murray:

You know, Christmas day, if something goes wrong, uh, someone tries to buy one

Janet Murray:

of your products, it probably will be me that has to jump on and try and fix it

Jon Clayton:

Okay.

Jon Clayton:

As the CEO of our business or in thinking like a CEO in trying to grow

Jon Clayton:

and create a business, if we're in business, but don't necessarily have one.

Jon Clayton:

What are the key things that we should be doing that we might not be doing already?

Jon Clayton:

Remember, don't forget to subscribe to my free weekly email newsletter.

Jon Clayton:

You can do that at mrjonclayton.co.uk/abc.

Jon Clayton:

And if you are enjoying this episode then please visit podchaser.com,

Jon Clayton:

search for Architecture Business Club and leave a five star review.

Jon Clayton:

Now, back to the show.

Janet Murray:

Yeah, so the first one we've touched on quite a lot, which is

Janet Murray:

obviously strategic planning and, having that, you know, forward planning, knowing

Janet Murray:

where you're going and then working out the best tactics to get there.

Janet Murray:

Um, data.

Janet Murray:

So, you tracking data, know what data you're going to track.

Janet Murray:

Again, the reason that a CEO of a big company can tell, could tell

Janet Murray:

you, if they were to tell you, they probably wouldn't, what their

Janet Murray:

financial goals are or whatever, and they can publish a report every year,

Janet Murray:

um, is because they're tracking.

Janet Murray:

So they're, they're looking at sales.

Janet Murray:

They're looking at increases.

Janet Murray:

they're looking at, you know, which product lines or which services are

Janet Murray:

selling the best, you know, they're, they're, they're making decisions

Janet Murray:

about what to continue with and, and, and, you know, what, what isn't worth

Janet Murray:

their investment of time and resources.

Janet Murray:

So tracking data.

Janet Murray:

So for example, I gave an example, I think I said this earlier, but

Janet Murray:

a lot of clients will say they'll, they'll pluck a figure out the

Janet Murray:

air of how much they want to earn.

Janet Murray:

I say, okay, well.

Janet Murray:

How are you going to get there?

Janet Murray:

Um, Oh, well, I'm not really sure.

Janet Murray:

Like what are your best selling products or services?

Janet Murray:

Oh, I don't really know.

Janet Murray:

Um, and the other thing is actually commercial viability.

Janet Murray:

And this is something I've been starting to talk about a lot.

Janet Murray:

And actually my choir was probably quite a good example because, um, You can

Janet Murray:

have some, sometimes I think, and I, and I think it may be less, less so in

Janet Murray:

the architectural industry, but you'd be able to, uh, put me right on that.

Janet Murray:

But a real common problem I see is people trying to sell things that they want

Janet Murray:

to deliver, but people don't want to buy . Um, and, and so, you might feel

Janet Murray:

really passionate and you might think that all the people that you, your ideal

Janet Murray:

customers and clients need to have these skills or need to have this service, but

Janet Murray:

if they don't get that, it doesn't matter.

Janet Murray:

How, how, how you put it.

Janet Murray:

So, so my best, um, top most downloaded podcast actually in my latest series was,

Janet Murray:

is your online course commercially viable?

Janet Murray:

Like how do you know if people want to buy something?

Janet Murray:

And the truth is you'll never know whether people want to buy a particular product

Janet Murray:

or service until you actually get out there and, and, um, put it on the market,

Janet Murray:

but really understanding what your.

Janet Murray:

ideal customers or clients problems are and making it your

Janet Murray:

business to find out what it is.

Janet Murray:

I did something interesting actually on, I ran a virtual event

Janet Murray:

recently and to show people what I meant by this is quite risky.

Janet Murray:

I do like to take a risk, but I said, look, I'm going to create

Janet Murray:

an offer with you on live.

Janet Murray:

I mean, I'm going to write the copies, the sales copy for this offer.

Janet Murray:

Uh, and it was actually a.

Janet Murray:

a one off consulting session.

Janet Murray:

And I said, look, if you could do like 90 minutes with me and I could help you like

Janet Murray:

achieve like a particular goal with a 90 minute session, like what would you want?

Janet Murray:

And what they all said was, um, they would want me to help them create a

Janet Murray:

commercially viable office to, to really kind of like hone, it could be a new

Janet Murray:

service or it could be something that they already had that wasn't selling very

Janet Murray:

well and crucially have to copy like, so that, so, because the problem is I think.

Janet Murray:

Is if you could have a great product or service that really transforms.

Janet Murray:

people's businesses or lives or whatever.

Janet Murray:

But if you can't find the right words to say that, or you're not

Janet Murray:

able to articulate the value of it, then it's not going to sell.

Janet Murray:

Um, so I think that's really important as well.

Janet Murray:

So understanding your value, having social proof that you can deliver

Janet Murray:

the results that you say that you can, and really be able to have

Janet Murray:

those commercial conversations.

Janet Murray:

So again, you know, a CEO of a company, while they might not be doing it

Janet Murray:

themselves, something they really do understand is how it delivers

Janet Murray:

value, what the transformation is.

Janet Murray:

And being able to do great sales calls and again, a CEO, like wouldn't

Janet Murray:

necessarily be doing those themselves, but they would understand the importance.

Janet Murray:

Of having people who can have great sales conversations, who can write a

Janet Murray:

great proposal, who understands, a team of marketers or whoever, who can

Janet Murray:

understand how to sell the benefits of it.

Janet Murray:

It, it's a lot, and so I think that's a really understanding commercial

Janet Murray:

viability, understanding how to create products or services people want to buy.

Janet Murray:

Being able to have great sales conversations.

Janet Murray:

Really listen to what people are saying.

Janet Murray:

And when I said at the beginning about people not knowing how to get a client,

Janet Murray:

it was just such a shock for me because, and it was, I think because of all

Janet Murray:

is that like online, you know, make millions overnight, all those sort of

Janet Murray:

views out there, I was getting people who literally had invested in like every

Janet Murray:

program under the sun, um, marketing wise, but just didn't know basic stuff.

Janet Murray:

Like, you know, the easiest way to get a client is probably to go to a networking

Janet Murray:

or probably to make a list of people you've worked with before or colleagues

Janet Murray:

and ask for recommendations or referrals.

Janet Murray:

So I think making it your business to, to get those kind of business

Janet Murray:

skills because you are a salesperson,

Jon Clayton:

Do you think that part of that is that people will

Jon Clayton:

sometimes gravitate to the Sales and marketing activities that

Jon Clayton:

feel in their zone of comfort.

Janet Murray:

Yeah, exactly.

Janet Murray:

And I think it's because, um, there's that risk of rejection.

Janet Murray:

So if you post some stuff on Instagram and no one replies, you can say, oh.

Janet Murray:

Oh, well, it was the algorithm or whatever, you can blame it

Janet Murray:

on something else or just say perhaps people aren't interested.

Janet Murray:

If you email somebody and ask for a referral or if you, um, reach out to a

Janet Murray:

previous client and say, Hey, I've got some space in the diary and I was thinking

Janet Murray:

about you for this, that's, you're more likely to get rejected, aren't you?

Janet Murray:

Um, and so people spend a lot of time, I think, procrastinating.

Janet Murray:

A real learning for me over the last decade is how much people will move

Janet Murray:

towards the marketing activity, sometimes because they think they're fun, like

Janet Murray:

personally, I think it's much more fun.

Janet Murray:

But, but also sometimes because they're scared of being rejected.

Janet Murray:

But actually, if you can master these essential skills of, knowing how to

Janet Murray:

get clients, real old school, make a list of Who you've worked with

Janet Murray:

before or what connections you've got, ask for recommendations, referrals,

Janet Murray:

know how to reach out to people, follow up, have those conversations.

Janet Murray:

That that's your key to freedom in a way, because if you, if you really, if

Janet Murray:

you can get really commercially minded and you can, you can get good at that

Janet Murray:

stuff, you know, I generated about five brands of income in about half an hour or

Janet Murray:

something, um, no fancy sales pages, by the way, I didn't, I, I, I sent the offer.

Janet Murray:

I'm not joking even, um, on a Google doc.

Janet Murray:

No, no fancy sales pages or whatever, because if people feel that you

Janet Murray:

understand their problem and you're able to articulate that they, they will buy

Jon Clayton:

I have this great idea that I'll spend months writing the

Jon Clayton:

copy for it and investing money in a new sales page on the website.

Jon Clayton:

Totally reverse engineering that the way that you've done it by getting yourself

Jon Clayton:

in front of your ideal audience and asking them, actually surveying the audience

Jon Clayton:

and saying, what are you struggling with?

Jon Clayton:

What are those biggest struggles and what, what would be the ideal

Jon Clayton:

way for me to help you with those?

Jon Clayton:

What's the outcome that you've been looking for and what would

Jon Clayton:

you be willing to pay for it?

Jon Clayton:

Actually reverse engineering it that way, I think is like genius.

Jon Clayton:

Such a good idea.

Janet Murray:

can I pick up on, on that question?

Janet Murray:

What would you be willing to pay?

Janet Murray:

That's actually.

Janet Murray:

a question that I feel personally, you should never have to ask

Janet Murray:

if you understand your value.

Janet Murray:

And if you ask somebody, what would you be willing to pay?

Janet Murray:

They'll go either I don't know, or they'll say as little as possible.

Janet Murray:

CEO thinking is people will pay what that transformation is worth.

Janet Murray:

to them.

Janet Murray:

So people often ask me questions about pricing.

Janet Murray:

So for, I'll give you an example.

Janet Murray:

So I sell strategic copywriting campaigns and they start at 5, 000 pounds.

Janet Murray:

And, and so what I do is I do, um, somebody might come to me

Janet Murray:

and they've got a very specific, uh, launch in mind and whatever.

Janet Murray:

And, and for the, for the wrong client, they'll go, Oh my God,

Janet Murray:

5, 000 pounds or whatever for the right client, they go brilliant.

Janet Murray:

So I'm going to get somebody who's going to.

Janet Murray:

Who's going to take the time to really understand my product or service, who's

Janet Murray:

going to help me look at every part of the process and the funnel, sales

Janet Murray:

page, emails, social media, whatever we decide, you know, whatever is going out.

Janet Murray:

Somebody who's got the experience, who's done it before, has got the

Janet Murray:

social proof, you know, and has got all the testimonials to say that they've

Janet Murray:

helped people get great results.

Janet Murray:

I worked with a client recently who, she had a group.

Janet Murray:

Program.

Janet Murray:

And she was doing all right.

Janet Murray:

Like she, she was getting people in, but she was just really busy

Janet Murray:

delivering and she wasn't, she, she wanted to increase the numbers and

Janet Murray:

she just wanted it to feel easy.

Janet Murray:

So I worked with her, uh, to work on all of her content, uh, the

Janet Murray:

strategy, crucially, and, um.

Janet Murray:

She, she generated 22 leads for that and she only needed 10 before

Janet Murray:

she even opened the enrolments.

Janet Murray:

The price of her program, I think was about two and a half thousand.

Janet Murray:

So she's going to make that calculation and go, well, if I

Janet Murray:

am able to sell two of these, like, , two more than I normally do.

Janet Murray:

Like this is a great investment and it's not just an investment for now.

Janet Murray:

It's an investment because she does it four times a year and I've got rinse

Janet Murray:

and repeat process that I can tweak.

Janet Murray:

So for the right client,

Janet Murray:

you can charge what you like, and also remember people are

Janet Murray:

buying your years of experience.

Janet Murray:

So, CEO thinking is not like how much do people want to pay, but it's

Janet Murray:

actually what, what is my service worth?

Janet Murray:

And, and for someone who is going to invest in this.

Janet Murray:

service or product, like if you've got the social proof, I can really

Janet Murray:

confidently charge that because I know that I've delivered that result.,

Jon Clayton:

we could talk for hours on this, this whole, the whole pricing thing.

Jon Clayton:

One little point I wanted to just touch upon was that I think one

Jon Clayton:

of the key things is communicating the value that's being offered,

Jon Clayton:

particularly in architecture.

Jon Clayton:

A lot of people, um, Still looking at it like we're exchanging time for money

Jon Clayton:

you know, they might not be selling the services by the hour necessarily,

Jon Clayton:

but often it can be a fixed price.

Jon Clayton:

That's based on an estimated number of hours.

Jon Clayton:

But that thing you mentioned, it's not just the fact that with your service

Jon Clayton:

that they're getting the campaign written for them or the course created,

Jon Clayton:

the paying for all that experience.

Jon Clayton:

And I think that's one of the huge disadvantages for those

Jon Clayton:

consultants that do charge hourly.

Jon Clayton:

You deliver the service quicker and you get penalized if you

Jon Clayton:

charge by the hour, you get less money, which is absolutely bonkers.

Jon Clayton:

You're delivering a better, more efficient service for the

Jon Clayton:

customer and you get paid less.

Jon Clayton:

Totally doesn't add up at all.

Jon Clayton:

And that's me having a little bit of a rant about that.

Jon Clayton:

Um, so I'll get off my soapbox.

Janet Murray:

but I mean, that's a key skill is about being able to design

Janet Murray:

offers and services and to, um, when someone comes to you and says, um,

Janet Murray:

Oh, how much would it be for this?

Janet Murray:

You having that conversation with them?

Janet Murray:

Um, I just an example I often give is like, I, I was approached

Janet Murray:

by university few years ago to do some training for them.

Janet Murray:

Um, and it was thousands and thousands of pounds at the time didn't know any better.

Janet Murray:

It's like, yeah, great, whatever.

Janet Murray:

When I got there, it was like a hornet's nest because.

Janet Murray:

They'd basically hired an advertising agency to create this like branding

Janet Murray:

style guide and brought me in to teach writing for the web because they

Janet Murray:

wanted all of their academic staff to, to write stuff for the website and

Janet Murray:

upload it, but they hadn't told anyone.

Janet Murray:

So me now would have said, well, I need to have a sales call.

Janet Murray:

You know, I don't just do a day rate.

Janet Murray:

I'd have listened to what they said.

Janet Murray:

And I would have said, well, look, you know, my expert advice is.

Janet Murray:

You need to, there's a bit of communication work you need to

Janet Murray:

do there to make sure everybody knows about it on board.

Janet Murray:

I'm happy to help.

Janet Murray:

you with that.

Janet Murray:

But I can't deliver these workshops without this key communication piece.

Janet Murray:

And so that potentially could have been, you know, 5000 into 15 So it's also about

Janet Murray:

that as well about about when you're quite skilled at having those sales

Janet Murray:

conversations, you can take a relatively small Oh, it's this many hours and

Janet Murray:

potentially if you really understand what the needs are, it doesn't mean everyone's

Janet Murray:

gonna say yes to it, but you can actually go back with a bigger piece of work.

Jon Clayton:

Janet, that has been absolutely brilliant.

Jon Clayton:

I think there's, there's so many, um, You know takeaways from that episode.

Jon Clayton:

It's been really really useful.

Jon Clayton:

Is there anything else that you wanted to say?

Jon Clayton:

Particularly about CEO mindset and thinking like a CEO that

Jon Clayton:

we haven't already covered in the course of the conversation

Janet Murray:

think we've covered most things, haven't we?

Janet Murray:

But I think it is just about having the bigger picture.

Janet Murray:

It's okay to be a freelancer or a contractor, like that's fine.

Janet Murray:

Um, but if you, if you want your business to run without you, if you potentially

Janet Murray:

want something that you could sell that's got value or that could generate income

Janet Murray:

when you're not around, the CEO thinking will really help and just being more,

Janet Murray:

you know, just help you make more money.

Janet Murray:

Um, that example I just gave there.

Janet Murray:

is potentially taking, you know, a couple of thousands worth of work to,

Janet Murray:

you know, multiple tens of thousands.

Janet Murray:

And, and, and, you know, even if you do want to be a freelancer or contractor,

Janet Murray:

just thinking more strategically.

Janet Murray:

And this is something I haven't mentioned actually is confidence as an expert.

Janet Murray:

So there's, again, we could do a whole episode on this, but I think

Janet Murray:

a lot of people lack confidence when they go out into the.

Janet Murray:

Into the market, you know, having been employed by a firm and they, they

Janet Murray:

have this kind of, I'll take what I get mentality, but you are an expert.

Janet Murray:

And, um, having the confidence to say, actually, I know you, you wanted to have a

Janet Murray:

conversation with me about this, but from what you've said, I, I, I, I think you

Janet Murray:

actually need to do this, this, and this.

Janet Murray:

And, and having the confidence to, to, um, to say no as well.

Janet Murray:

And again, a CEO, you know, doesn't just say yes to everything, including

Janet Murray:

things that aren't aligned with.

Janet Murray:

you know, the business vision.

Janet Murray:

Um, I think a freelancer contracted mentality can also be, oh, I'll just

Janet Murray:

take everything that comes my way.

Janet Murray:

Um, and actually when you're more, uh, secure on who it is you want to work

Janet Murray:

with, how you want to work with them, and you've got that vision, um, generally

Janet Murray:

everything is a lot easier, but, um, hopefully that's just a helpful addition.

Janet Murray:

It's probably loads more, but that's some, yeah, just that kind of self confidence.

Jon Clayton:

Absolutely.

Jon Clayton:

Yeah, that's something that's so lacking with so many people and the

Jon Clayton:

power of saying no, actually, you know, if you're saying yes to one

Jon Clayton:

opportunity, you're saying no to another.

Jon Clayton:

So actually being brave to be able to say no, particularly when you

Jon Clayton:

sometimes you get a gut instinct, don't you, about whether Somebody's

Jon Clayton:

going to be a good client or not.

Jon Clayton:

And, um, yeah, I've started to say no a lot more over the years.

Jon Clayton:

I started out and it was yes to everything, but not any, not anymore.

Jon Clayton:

Thankfully.

Jon Clayton:

Um, Janet, there was just one other question I wanted to ask.

Jon Clayton:

Um, it's not topic related, but I, I love to travel and discover new places.

Jon Clayton:

And I just wondered if you could tell me like one of your favorite places

Jon Clayton:

and what you love about it, just out of interest and curiosity, could be anywhere,

Jon Clayton:

could be the end of your street or somewhere on the other side of the world.

Jon Clayton:

Is there anywhere that springs to mind as one of your favorite places?

Janet Murray:

Yeah, I've traveled quite a lot with work all over

Janet Murray:

the place, and there isn't a particular place that stands out.

Janet Murray:

A place where I feel very comfortable.

Janet Murray:

Um, I was actually, although it doesn't sound like it, I was born in Liverpool.

Janet Murray:

And um, I think it's an amazing place and a wonderful city.

Janet Murray:

And I certainly feel very at home there.

Janet Murray:

Um, but yeah, that doesn't sound it?

Janet Murray:

I feel like I should be saying something more like exciting.

Janet Murray:

Um, but I think any travel or any new place I've visited

Janet Murray:

always has something to offer.

Janet Murray:

Um, in terms of Just meeting new people and having new experiences.

Janet Murray:

So, yeah, I wish I could say something that sounded a bit more.

Jon Clayton:

No, that's absolutely fine.

Jon Clayton:

Liverpool, Liverpool's an awesome city.

Jon Clayton:

I've, um, I didn't visit there up until probably within the last, I don't

Jon Clayton:

know, five to ten years of my life.

Jon Clayton:

And I, I can't even remember the specific reason.

Jon Clayton:

I think I went for like a city break there with my wife.

Jon Clayton:

We had an amazing time.

Jon Clayton:

Such a fantastic city.

Jon Clayton:

So definitely recommend people go visit if you've never been before.

Jon Clayton:

And an amazing history of music as well, if people are into music.

Jon Clayton:

Could you just remind everybody, um, firstly, where's the best place

Jon Clayton:

for people to connect with you?

Jon Clayton:

If you want to connect with you online, get in touch with you, where's

Jon Clayton:

the best place for them to do that?

Janet Murray:

So I think probably I have a Facebook page, which

Janet Murray:

is Janet Murray, Facebook.

Janet Murray:

Business business strategy, a Facebook page, business strategist and copywriter.

Janet Murray:

Um, but I'm everywhere else where we're online.

Janet Murray:

Um, and, um, I had the podcast, the survey courageous CEO podcast.

Janet Murray:

And if what I've been saying about these.

Janet Murray:

Strategic skills has really resonated.

Janet Murray:

And you're like, yes, I need to know about all of that stuff.

Janet Murray:

My courageous CEO, um, strategic business plan and resource kit, um, has got a

Janet Murray:

comprehensive business strategy, training, audio training, some a podcaster,

Janet Murray:

which goes through all of this stuff.

Janet Murray:

how to come up with commercially viable offers, how to put together

Janet Murray:

packages, how to design them, how to write copy that sells your,

Janet Murray:

um, social products and services.

Janet Murray:

Um, also how to, um, have sales calls and follow up and write great proposals.

Janet Murray:

So a lot of those foundational skills that a lot of us we get in business.

Janet Murray:

And like we kind of get some of them and then sometimes we have to go

Janet Murray:

back sometimes and fill in the gaps.

Janet Murray:

I certainly had to.

Janet Murray:

Well, it's basically what I wish I had when I started all the templates.

Janet Murray:

So templates for sales calls follow up as well as thousand social media templates.

Janet Murray:

Basically anything you need to do in your business.

Janet Murray:

I have a template for it.

Janet Murray:

I've basically just given everything.

Janet Murray:

that I use every day in my business, um, to, to help me generate

Janet Murray:

sales and consistent sales.

Janet Murray:

Um, so that's the 2024 career courageous CEO, strategic business plan and

Janet Murray:

resource kits and massive mouth mouthful.

Janet Murray:

It's even harder to say than architectural.

Janet Murray:

Um, actually, but I managed it.

Janet Murray:

And there's a special discount code, um, which is, um, John 97, um,

Janet Murray:

which will get you 50 pounds off.

Janet Murray:

Um, and my discount codes providing Yeah.

Janet Murray:

The product's still available.

Janet Murray:

Uh, they're live for 90, 90 days.

Jon Clayton:

Oh, that's absolutely awesome.

Jon Clayton:

Thank you so much, Janet.

Jon Clayton:

I will make sure that those links and the discount code

Jon Clayton:

go in the podcast show notes.

Jon Clayton:

So if you're listening to the podcast, uh, just go and check

Jon Clayton:

out the show notes on your.

Jon Clayton:

Podcast app of choice go and look at the description.

Jon Clayton:

All the links will be in there.

Jon Clayton:

Go ahead and grab one of those from Janet Um, i've bought lots of products

Jon Clayton:

from Janet before and attended a lot of events and everything that she

Jon Clayton:

creates is absolutely amazing And ever so useful, so please go ahead and take

Jon Clayton:

advantage of that discount Okay, Janet.

Jon Clayton:

Thanks again.

Jon Clayton:

It's been a pleasure to have you on the show

Janet Murray:

Thanks so much for having me.

Jon Clayton:

Next time I'll be chatting with Laura Robinson about

Jon Clayton:

bite sized one-to-one experiences, otherwise known as first date

Jon Clayton:

offers that can lead your clients towards your higher priced services.

Jon Clayton:

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Architecture Business Club.

Jon Clayton:

If you liked this episode, think other people might enjoy it.

Jon Clayton:

Or just want to show your support, then please visit podchaser.com.

Jon Clayton:

Search for Architecture Business Club and leave a glowing five-star review.

Jon Clayton:

It would mean so much to me and makes it easier for new

Jon Clayton:

listeners to discover the show.

Jon Clayton:

If you just want to connect with me, you can do that on most social media

Jon Clayton:

platforms, just search for @mrjonclayton.

Jon Clayton:

The best place to connect with me online though is on LinkedIn.

Jon Clayton:

You can find a link to my profile in the show notes.

Jon Clayton:

Remember running your architecture business doesn't have to be hard.

Jon Clayton:

And you don't need to do it alone.

Jon Clayton:

This is Architecture Business Club.

Show artwork for Architecture Business Club - For Architects, Architectural Technologists, Surveyors & Designers

About the Podcast

Architecture Business Club - For Architects, Architectural Technologists, Surveyors & Designers
Helping busy architecture professionals build a better business with actionable tips and tactics.
Architecture Business Club is the weekly podcast to help solo and small firm architecture business owners build a profitable, future-proof architecture practice that both you and your clients love! It’s an inclusive place (for ALL architecture business owners). So whether you’re an Architect, Architectural Technologist, or Architectural Designer…If you sell architectural services and want to improve the way you do things…This is THE podcast for you.

I’m Jon Clayton, your show host, and a Chartered Architectural Technologist based in the UK. I’ve been in architecture for over two decades and running my own (solo) practice for 10 years+.

Each week you’ll hear from inspiring people from the world of architecture and business who share actionable tips to help you improve how you work, save time, or make more money. I’ll also share my own experiences running an architecture business in occasional solo episodes. We cover everything from mindset, money, business strategy, sales & marketing, productivity, systems & workflows, client experience, outsourcing, software, technology, and much more.

Episodes are kept as short as possible by cutting out the fluff and getting straight to the point. So expect interview episodes of around 30 minutes or less, and solo episodes of 5 to 15 minutes.

New episodes are released every Thursday at 6am GMT / 2am EST.

Welcome to the Club!

About your host

Profile picture for Jon Clayton

Jon Clayton

I’m Jon. A Chartered Architectural Technologist and the founder of Architecture Business Club. I've been working in architecture for over two decades and running my own architectural design business for over ten of those years. My mission is to help you build a better architecture business on your terms. So if you're a sole practitioner (or small practice) architect, architectural technologist, or architectural designer, I want to help YOU. I'm a Northerner but now live with my family in Norfolk, UK. Outside of work, I'm a guitar tottin', kayaking, movie trivia buff.